New York - City of Losers

packs · #1 10-07-2021, 10:13 AM

Just one example of the sticky stuff covereage re: Cole

https://www.si.com/mlb/yankees/news/...ff-speculation

Cole finished second in WAR among pitchers to Robbie Ray this year. Robbie Ray made 8 million dollars. Cole made 36 million dollars. It's not good enough to just be kinda good or even good. For 36 mil a year you need to be lights out. That is the expectation when you're being paid. If he didn't want that kind of microscope on him, he shouldn't have asked for 36 million a year. He couldn't get out of the third inning of a must win do or die game, he lost 2 out of his last 3 starts at the end of the season, and he gave up 7 home runs over his last 19 innings to end the year.

frankbmd · #2 10-07-2021, 10:38 AM

First Commandment of Elite Pitchers

NEVER SHAKE THE UMPIRE'S HAND

egri · #3 10-07-2021, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

First Commandment of Elite Pitchers

NEVER SHAKE THE UMPIRE'S HAND

Only if you're a righty. A lefty could get away with it.

frankbmd · #4 10-07-2021, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egri

Only if you're a righty. A lefty could get away with it.

I considered that stipulation, but thought it unneeded as someone like yourself would point it out.

Would a high five with your glove on satisfy your literal analysis as long as one didn’t use his gloved hand?

And I know you are going to say that Jim Abbott couldn’t comply.

If I am guilty of starting a wildfire, I plead no intent.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 10-07-2021, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Just one example of the sticky stuff covereage re: Cole

https://www.si.com/mlb/yankees/news/...ff-speculation

Cole finished second in WAR among pitchers to Robbie Ray this year. Robbie Ray made 8 million dollars. Cole made 36 million dollars. It's not good enough to just be kinda good or even good. For 36 mil a year you need to be lights out. That is the expectation when you're being paid. If he didn't want that kind of microscope on him, he shouldn't have asked for 36 million a year. He couldn't get out of the third inning of a must win do or die game, he lost 2 out of his last 3 starts at the end of the season, and he gave up 7 home runs over his last 19 innings to end the year.

Harsh. Find any pitcher in history who hasn't had a bad stretch even at an important time. The man will finish first or second in Cy Young voting. That's pretty damn good.

frankbmd · #6 10-07-2021, 11:57 AM

When pitchers can no longer pitch 162 innings a year, rendering seasonal stats less conclusive, maybe they should just do away with the single Cy Young Award and vote for a litter of Baby Cys instead in each league.

You could then award a career Cy to any pitcher with seven babies.

packs · #7 10-07-2021, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Harsh. Find any pitcher in history who hasn't had a bad stretch even at an important time. The man will finish first or second in Cy Young voting. That's pretty damn good.

Good is winning important games. One of the games Cole lost against Toronto could have meant the Yankees playing at home. And it is not harsh to expect your 36 million dollar pitcher to show up when it matters.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 10-07-2021, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Good is winning important games. One of the games Cole lost against Toronto could have meant the Yankees playing at home. And it is not harsh to expect your 36 million dollar pitcher to show up when it matters.

It's not realistic. Even the best pitchers lose and don't pitch well in big games sometimes. It's the nature of baseball.

packs · #9 10-07-2021, 12:29 PM

I'm not talking about one game and it seemed realistic when Pettitte, el Duque and Tanaka were typically able to live up to it.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 10-07-2021, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I'm not talking about one game and it seemed realistic when Pettitte, el Duque and Tanaka were typically able to live up to it.

It would be interesting to see stats on this. For example, stats sometimes don't verify people's perception about certain players being clutch hitters. In any case yeah for Yankees fans it would have been nice if Cole had pitched better in certain games, and I get the frustration. As a Sox fan I am glad he didn't but I still think he's a great pitcher.

egri · #11 10-07-2021, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Would a high five with your glove on satisfy your literal analysis as long as one didn�t use his gloved hand?

And I know you are going to say that Jim Abbott couldn�t comply.

So long as five fingers are raised in some form, I think the spirit of the rule is met, whether or not the five fingers are obscured by a glove.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

You could then award a career Cy to any pitcher with seven babies.

If innings pitched continue their precipitous decline, before long outfielders will be making more throws each game than pitchers. I propose we retroactively award a Baby Cy to outfielder Gus Zernial, who had six home runs in three games commemorated on his 1952 Topps card (he hit a seventh the following day), and also to pitcher Larry Jansen, who is shown on his card holding up seven fingers--one for each of his children.

carlsonjok · #12 10-07-2021, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

I'm not talking about one game and it seemed realistic when Pettitte, el Duque and Tanaka were typically able to live up to it.

Andy Pettite was pretty awful in Game 6 of the 2001 Series and the supernaturally consistent Mariano Rivera laid an egg in Game 7.

egri · #13 10-07-2021, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

...and the supernaturally consistent Mariano Rivera laid an egg in Game 7.

In the 2004 ALCS as well. Just goes to show that even the great ones stumble sometimes.

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