New York - City of Losers

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm not talking about one game. I'm talking about the guy losing 2 out of 3 starts to end the year, one of which the Yankees were counting on him to win, and then losing again in the Wild Card game and giving up 7 home runs over his last 19 innings.

And if that same stretch happened in May it would be no big deal.

It only seems worse because by October there isn't enough time left to make up for an earlier bad stretch.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

And if that same stretch happened in May it would be no big deal.

It only seems worse because by October there isn't enough time left to make up for an earlier bad stretch.

Yep. All wins and losses count the same, just like all runs and runs surrendered in a game count the same, but some don't seem persuaded by that.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yep. All wins and losses count the same, just like all runs and runs surrendered in a game count the same, but some don't seem persuaded by that.

How can you be when you watch someone lose the last game there is to play? I don't see how theory or conceptual ideals play into losing the game you needed to win.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

How can you be when you watch someone lose the last game there is to play? I don't see how theory or conceptual ideals play into losing the game you needed to win.

You needed the first game just as much, as it turned out. You are IMO conflating drama and importance.

[packs]

Originally Posted by steve B

And if that same stretch happened in May it would be no big deal.

It only seems worse because by October there isn't enough time left to make up for an earlier bad stretch.

Obviously. You play the entire season to win in October, so if you don't win in October, what does it matter? I really don't see how anyone in the world would take solace in something like Gerrit Cole having a great May and then throwing 2 innings in a do or die game.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by packs

I just find it funny that people are upset at the Yankees "buying" championships, which is absurd once you start talking about the teams who won. The Core Four were entirely home grown players, and that doesn't include Bernie Williams, another home grown player, or bit players like Ramiro Mendoza, who were also home grown players.

So, what was bought when three of your best hitters were signed out of high school and your two best pitchers were signed as an international free agent and a 22nd round draft pick?

Even if you look at 2009, 5 out of the 9 starting players had only played in a Yankee uniform. In the rotation, 2 out of 5 starters were drafted by the Yankees and the bullpen was anchored by Mariano Rivera, Phil Hughes, David Robertson, and Phil Coke, all guys who had never worn another uniform.

Originally Posted by packs

I'm not really understanding what's to be admired about a team like the Rays either. How can you celebrate losing? Or want to emulate a team who lost enough to finally be good? How is that a recipe anyone would want to follow? You think there are teams out there considering being terrible for 20 years on purpose to finally be good and still not win a World Series?

Good Lord,

If the Yankees and the Dodgers did not perennially have the two highest team salaries, perhaps I would think twice about claiming that they buy championships. (I also like to see the big spenders lose, I'm not a Laker fan either)

As far as the Rays are concerned, the first time they reached the big show (aka WS) I think their team salary was between 1/4 and 1/3 of the league's highest. Someone will provide the specifics if you doubt that. They also play in a tin foil dome with a slanted roof. Have you been there, I have. Winning a championship or even coming in second is much more of an accomplishment than going out and buying Stanton and Cole and then bitch about not winning a championship. Go Rays, and I would add the Brewers for many of the same reasons. There is a big difference between wanting to emulate a small market team and admiring them.

Another post suggested that we were dissing New York as a city. I would object to that assessment, because I'm sure there are several million New Yorkers who don't give a damn about sports, and more than a few are probably fine people, whether the Yankees win or lose.

[packs]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Good Lord,

If the Yankees and the Dodgers did not perennially have the two highest team salaries, perhaps I would think twice about claiming that they buy championships. (I also like to see the big spenders lose, I'm not a Laker fan either)

As far as the Rays are concerned, the first time they reached the big show (aka WS) I think their team salary was between 1/4 and 1/3 of the league's highest. Someone will provide the specifics if you doubt that. They also play in a tin foil dome with a slanted roof. Have you been there, I have. Winning a championship or even coming in second is much more of an accomplishment than going out and buying Stanton and Cole and then bitch about not winning a championship. Go Rays, and I would add the Brewers for many of the same reasons. There is a big difference between wanting to emulate a small market team and admiring them.

Another post suggested that we were dissing New York as a city. I would object to that assessment, because I'm sure there are several million New Yorkers who don't give a dam about sports, and more than a few are probably fine people, whether the Yankees win or lose.

There is no accomplishment if you don't win. Nobody in the world says at least we got to play. Also, your perception of salaries doesn't take into account what it costs to keep a player you drafted on your team. If that's what you mean by "buying" championships, I guess you live in a different world where money isn't as important to you. The Yankees pay their players. That's why so many of them retire as a Yankee. That is not what I assume most people mean when they say "buying" championships. I associated that with the mentality of never drafting well and relying on free agents, which isn't the Yankees MO at all.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Good Lord,

If the Yankees and the Dodgers did not perennially have the two highest team salaries, perhaps I would think twice about claiming that they buy championships. (I also like to see the big spenders lose, I'm not a Laker fan either)

As far as the Rays are concerned, the first time they reached the big show (aka WS) I think their team salary was between 1/4 and 1/3 of the league's highest. Someone will provide the specifics if you doubt that. They also play in a tin foil dome with a slanted roof. Have you been there, I have. Winning a championship or even coming in second is much more of an accomplishment than going out and buying Stanton and Cole and then bitch about not winning a championship. Go Rays, and I would add the Brewers for many of the same reasons. There is a big difference between wanting to emulate a small market team and admiring them.

Another post suggested that we were dissing New York as a city. I would object to that assessment, because I'm sure there are several million New Yorkers who don't give a damn about sports, and more than a few are probably fine people, whether the Yankees win or lose.

Agree, would love to see the WHITE Sox, Ray or Brewers win it all. Much more respect for organizations that don't buy titles, or attempt to buy titles.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Agree, would love to see the WHITE Sox, Ray or Brewers win it all. Much more respect for organizations that don't buy titles, or attempt to buy titles.

May I suggest the Baltimore Orioles.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

May I suggest the Baltimore Orioles.

I'd like to see the Orioles be competitive again, but only after Peter Angelos sells the team. I have nothing against the Orioles, but can't stand Angelos.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Obviously. You play the entire season to win in October, so if you don't win in October, what does it matter? I really don't see how anyone in the world would take solace in something like Gerrit Cole having a great May and then throwing 2 innings in a do or die game.

If you don't win in May you aren't competitive in October. Take one of his May wins, turn it into a loss, and the Yankees don't even make the wild card. This is the same argument we've had about all runs in a game being equal no matter which inning.

[packs]

That's not how life is lived though. You don't care about yesterday when you need to win today. That's Monday morning talk.