1989 Fleer Randy Johnson #381 Marlboro Errors - 30 Years Later

[bnorth]

The sun finally come out in full force so I got better pics of the one that looks like it shows the top of the l and b and to one that is similar but doesn't have the distinct tops of the l and b. What do you guys think and have you ever seen the top one before? I know when I heard it existed it took me a very long time to track it down.

[hockeyhockey]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36356820825...p2047675.l2557


what's the fascination with this particular randy? is that one of those blue tint ones you guys were referring to?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by hockeyhockey

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36356820825...p2047675.l2557


what's the fascination with this particular randy? is that one of those blue tint ones you guys were referring to?

It looks to be a blue one. I have found they can look blue on your computer. Then when it arrives it isn't.

The blue ones seem to be a very recent addition. Seems weird that none showed up for decades and now they are showing up in numbers. Hopefully for those that paid big bucks a large stash doesn't hit the market and make them worth WAY less.

[steve5838]

The thing that intrigues me so much about this blue box negative/stencil version is how the Marlboro lettering can appear or fade away with your focus. It is similar with the red negative version but more apparent here due to better contrast between the blue and green colors. The dark blue on this one is in your face immediately but then I need to focus on the sign for the lettering to become clear. I've always considered these cards works of art and this is just another example. It is just cool to me. The other interesting aspect of the card to me is that the centering and offset of the top diagonal bar ("overlap" using Hatorade's terminology) on the ones that I picked up were so close to the centering and diagonal bar overlap on the clear version cards. Maybe it is pure coincidence but as others pointed out, it suggests the blue box stencil may have come out of the same case as the clear one. Interestingly the centering and left side cut on the blue box card on eBay seems to be more similar to Hatorade's example than to the two I bought. It makes me wonder if the next clear one will turn up with this centering and rough left edge cut.

At this point I am only aware of 4 blue box negative/stencil cards (Hatorade's PSA 9, the two I purchased from the card shop owner who had the clear version, and this one) so absolute numbers so far are still quite low - albeit clustered on recent pickups. I'm not as worried about hoarders flooding the market since we have a lot of those here (me included to some extent) that have been trying to track down blue versions for some time with only limited luck. I actually want more blue ones in my collection! It would make sense that someone holding this card would have listed now given recent attention to the version in this thread. Increased attention and recent high sale prices may (hopefully) motivate more to come out of the woodwork. In any case, the current count for the blue box negative/stencil appears similar to the blue/aqua tint version. That said, this version is a little more subtle than the clear or blue/aqua tint cards.. so it is more likely these could be buried away unnoticed in pcs.

Last year so many early 1989 fleer wax cases seemed to come up for sale... I am curious how many of them were actually opened and what was pulled. With grading services halted many of the cards pulled from those cases may not be graded yet. If the clear and blue versions occured at the very start of production I would bet more graded examples could come to market over the next year.

I'm not convinced the blue box stencil version has the resale potential of the clear or blue/aqua tint cards but given there have been so few sightings over the last 10+ years I can't believe it is not rare and important. My semi uneducated guess puts this at the #3 in rarity after the clear and blue/aqua tint... but who knows.

Steve

[steve5838]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The sun finally come out in full force so I got better pics of the one that looks like it shows the top of the l and b and to one that is similar but doesn't have the distinct tops of the l and b. What do you guys think and have you ever seen the top one before? I know when I heard it existed it took me a very long time to track it down.

Nice pictures, Ben! They really highlight the differences among these scribble versions.

[steve5838]

In case anyone is interested, here is a picture of one of the blue stencil version cards I bought from the card shop owner with the clear one (lower pic) and the decidedly darker blue (more box like) stencil version card I purchased on eBay (upper pic). The scan was of both cards at once.

My question is whether there is any relationship between these stencil/negative cards and the other versions? Compare the cutout pattern in the top picture to "g1" where the top part of the cowboy is obscured. Which version would go along with the cutout pattern in the lower picture (where the top of the blue pattern "cover up" doesn't extend to the top of the cowboy)?

Steve

[Athos01]

Hi Steve - nice pics! I don't see these versions in your current matrix. These boxed versions are very early, short-run corrections that Fleer applied to the Marlboro sign.

[hockeyhockey]

wow steve, those are very cool. never seen that before.

[Statfreak101]

Originally Posted by Athos01

Hi Steve - nice pics! I don't see these versions in your current matrix. These boxed versions are very early, short-run corrections that Fleer applied to the Marlboro sign.

Do you have this confirmed? In terms of "very early", what time frame are you exactly referring to?

[Athos01]

By early, I'm referring to Fleer case codes around the 833XX or 834XX time frame. I'm not sure I have seen any cases earlier than 8324X, so these were definitely made early-on in the Johnson correction timeframe. But, it is very key to remember that the entire timeframe for the Johnson corrections was far shorter than the Bill Ripken correction timeframe. The Johnson cards were all fully blacked out ads prior to Fleer even touching the Ripken FF cards.

[steve5838]

Yes, it was me. I was holding off on this post until I had the card in hand and it was paid for. I had actually written up something last month but decided to wait before posting in on this board. Now that it's paid for I am happy with how everything worked out and wanted to share "the rest of the story" (even though there isn't really that much more to add) for anyone that is interested.

Anyway, here is the timeline... once David posted the picture of the 3rd graded clear one here on Net54 (in post #195 at 4:24 pm on Friday 9/24), I went back to FB and this time was able to see a public post by the card shop owner showing the card. I messaged the owner Friday evening, gave him my personal email and asked if he was interested in selling. Saturday morning a little after 10 am I received response that "the card is hitting the market today. 15k obo." Within a half hour or so, I made a low ball offer but he said no he already had an offer @ 12k. After some back and forth I told him I could do 13k and call in payment that day if he wanted an easy sale and he accepted. By the time David and Ben posted (#202, #203) late Saturday morning it was already a done deal. It is by far the most I have ever spent on a card, but for me there isn't a card I would want more.

So that is the story. After that it wasn't hard to follow up on the other RJ's in the hand collated sets - which made things even better with those blue stencil cards. Whether the deal is crazy to others or not, I guess it doesn't really matter -- there are plenty of things I don't understand why people spend their money on (I guess I already mentioned why the whole thing made sense to me back in post #211). I can't put into words exactly how or why this clear version is so fascinating to me but it is.

Of course, there was some pain involved here too... over the last month and a half I sold almost half my PC to make this happen. Having the heads up about this card from statfreak101 before it was graded/listed gave me time to mentally prepare/work through what I would be willing to "sell/trade" for it so I could make a quick move on the card when it was listed (and for that I am very grateful).

So that's it... I couldn't be happier with how it turned out. For anyone interested here are pictures of my two clear cards side by side - together in the same scan.

Steve

[Kzoo]

Originally Posted by Athos01

By early, I'm referring to Fleer case codes around the 833XX or 834XX time frame. I'm not sure I have seen any cases earlier than 8324X, so these were definitely made early-on in the Johnson correction timeframe. But, it is very key to remember that the entire timeframe for the Johnson corrections was far shorter than the Bill Ripken correction timeframe. The Johnson cards were all fully blacked out ads prior to Fleer even touching the Ripken FF cards.

So, are these 'clear' Marlboro ad cards only in the early wax cases, or could some have been inserted into the rack and cello packs as well?

[steve5838]

Originally Posted by Athos01

Hi Steve - nice pics! I don't see these versions in your current matrix. These boxed versions are very early, short-run corrections that Fleer applied to the Marlboro sign.

Thanks, Kevin. I believe the darker blue (more box like) stencil/negative version card in the upper pic is the one shown in the bottom row of the matrix (with the yellow border around the picture). When I put together the matrix I didn't own one of these cards and added the yellow border to indicate that this was not one of mine (it is a picture of Hatorade's blue stencil/negative card). I haven't added the lighter blue stencil/negative version into the figure yet but I think positioning in the matrix would be similar.

[lowpopper]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313796345116

Can we precisely identify which version this is?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313796345116

Can we precisely identify which version this is?

Not sure the exact name but it is the second clearest version. There are several posted in this thread and can usually easily be found on eBay. I posted my PSA 9 that I paid around $20 for. Not sure of the exact current value but for a raw one $9500 might be a little overpriced.

[steve5838]

Originally Posted by lowpopper

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313796345116

Can we precisely identify which version this is?

This is what I've referred to as the "br2" version. I'm very familiar with the version. With a good light source it is the second clearest version.