Shoeless Joe Jackson Auto- Fake?

[Klrdds]

Ok I'll bring this up since I've not seen this brought up .
If the signature on the just auctioned photo is authentic , and the signature on the composite is authentic , and the 3 examples that Frank posted are authentic then can someone please explain what happened to Joe in a span of 5 -6 years to have his signature change so dramatically and actually become truly deteriorated compared to those earlier examples on the photo , the composite , and the books Frank posted ?
There is no mention of Joe developing or having any debilitating sickness or injury or physical limitations or alcohol abuse or mental issues which could cause drastic and rapid signature decline. Plus looking at his on field performance I think it's clear he had no problems.
So then what would be the cause of this drastic signature change ? AND yes it is a drastic change in his signature . His signature after roughly 1915 /1916 never changed for over 30 + years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It would truly facilitate this discussion if someone is able to post large images of each known and alleged Jackson signature from 1911 on and in chron order so they're all in one place for visual reference. It's confusing to a simpleton like me when people discuss this signature or that one but one has to scroll around to find the image or images being discussed. Thomas did post a few images but at least on my screen they are small.

[SteveS]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It would truly facilitate this discussion if someone is able to post large images of each known and alleged Jackson signature from 1911 on and in chron order so they're all in one place for visual reference. It's confusing to a simpleton like me when people discuss this signature or that one but one has to scroll around to find the image or images being discussed. Thomas did post a few images but at least on my screen they are small.

OK, here ya go. These are from PSA's website. I'm sure there are more verified signatures of his, but there are enough here to get an idea. I've isolated just the signatures and put them in chronological order as best I could (1915-1949; one wasn't dated). The last one is the auctioned photo. Here is the link from where I got them:https://www.psacard.com/autographfac...joe-jackson/21

[Peter_Spaeth]

Awesome thanks. First impression is that the two capital J's in the '11 photo don't look the same as the rest, and the c is more open at the top. And we still have the Alexandria problem.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Awesome thanks. First impression is that the two capital J's in the '11 photo don't look the same as the rest, and the c is more open at the top. And we still have the Alexandria problem.

The Alexandria text is not a problem to me. In my opinion, that was clearly written by someone else.

[SteveS]

I don't think it can be said with absolute certainty either way without knowing for sure that the ink has been on the photo since 1911. If that can be shown, it would be very convincing to me, as I doubt anyone would be signing his name back then so similarly to his actual signature that we'd be debating it 110 years later. That "E" is very distinctive, and even his wife didn't do it that way when she signed for him. But no matter what, I don't believe that he wrote the "Alexandria 1911."

[Jobu]

I don't think there is anyone who is stating that he also wrote Alexandria.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

The Alexandria text is not a problem to me. In my opinion, that was clearly written by someone else.

I can see it either way. But certainly some experts see it as the same hand.

[Peter_Spaeth]

All the other signatures have a c that is nearly closed at the top. They're very consistent.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

The Alexandria text is not a problem to me. In my opinion, that was clearly written by someone else.

I think the part I have trouble with is that Frank Smith, for reproduction purposes, would enhance the signatures on his photos. His goal was a great and complete end product not that the sigs were 100% original. Fast forward to the 21st century and that innocent effort renders these questionable. If he or someone else wrote on the Jax photo what was to stop him with filling in other gaps?

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

Ok I'll bring this up since I've not seen this brought up .
If the signature on the just auctioned photo is authentic , and the signature on the composite is authentic , and the 3 examples that Frank posted are authentic then can someone please explain what happened to Joe in a span of 5 -6 years to have his signature change so dramatically and actually become truly deteriorated compared to those earlier examples on the photo , the composite , and the books Frank posted ?
There is no mention of Joe developing or having any debilitating sickness or injury or physical limitations or alcohol abuse or mental issues which could cause drastic and rapid signature decline. Plus looking at his on field performance I think it's clear he had no problems.
So then what would be the cause of this drastic signature change ? AND yes it is a drastic change in his signature . His signature after roughly 1915 /1916 never changed for over 30 + years.

I was thinking the same thing.