Shoeless Joe Jackson Auto- Fake?

packs · #1 10-13-2021, 01:58 PM

Are they? We're talking about someone who would have no experience with a pencil. I've got pretty good motor skills and am literate. I don't think I'd do well at caligraphy. All you have to do is try writing with your weak hand. I think you'll find out pretty quickly how handy muscle memory and practice are.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #2 10-13-2021, 02:02 PM

Just because someone is incapable of writing doesn't mean they haven't had experience holding a pencil in order to draw things. Children do learn to use writing implements prior to learning how to read or print their names. And again, Jackson was an adult, so would have had ample opportunity to find other uses for a pen or pencil.

packs · #3 10-13-2021, 02:04 PM

Like what? Are you suggesting he might have been an artist or something?

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #4 10-13-2021, 02:10 PM

Not at all. Just think of various utilitarian ways a pen or pencil can be used other than to write in a language. An illiterate adult would have had many reasons to make marks throughout their life--the point being that the motor movements would have been much more developed in a fully grown individual as a result. Remember, even if the writing implement wasn't held in the 100% proper way, a person is likely using the very same muscles and motor movements whether writing, drawing or making a mark on a 2X4. A pre-schooler's pen, pencil or paintbrush marks are generally fraught with more trepidation. While Jackson's autograph does exhibit slowness and hesitancy, try getting your three year old to write "Joe Jackson" anywhere near as nice. If your child is gifted, they'd likely be more literate than poor Joe, too, but they still couldn't do as good a job. Case closed.

Snowman · #5 10-13-2021, 03:08 PM

Some of you guys make it sound like he was practically a vegetable, or that he was the equivalent of a recent amputee learning to write with their toes for the first time. We're talking about a fully capable adult here, with finely tuned motor skills, learning to copy a few letters. That's it. It's really not that difficult. We're not talking about him learning to read and write, we're not talking about him being able to generate a beautifully scripted signature like Babe Ruth's or anything like that. We're simply talking about someone learning how to copy a few letters.

packs · #6 10-13-2021, 03:27 PM

I think it's evident from his signature throughout his life that it never got that easy.

Jobu · #7 10-13-2021, 03:37 PM

Kids are not a good example to compare to adults on this one - the bones in their hands/wrists and their brains are not fully formed.

Jackson wrote numbers and kept notebooks:

https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/l...ok-page/?cat=0

https://www.gottahaverockandroll.com...-LOT38717.aspx

So he clearly had the ability to hold a pen. I also imagine he drew pictures or made doodles at some point in his life, even if only as a kid.

This is all getting away from the point of this thread. And I still say that this makes a lot more sense as a legit signature than it does as a fake given the provenance, the other photos, and the period published newspaper piece that has hand-signed photos in it, not facsimile signatures.

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