Shoeless Joe Jackson Auto- Fake?

SteveS · #1 10-13-2021, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Sorry but its asinine to compare a price between a torn notebook page with numbers, to a signed type one photo.

Should be "it's" asinine, not "its." And it's not just numbers, but also written names. Given the rarity of anything written by Jackson, one would absolutely think that a legitimate item with numbers and names would sell for more than $763 and $0. Certainly not $1.4 million, but if the writing is indeed authentic it would rewrite history with regard to the extent of his illiteracy.

Jobu · #2 10-13-2021, 08:07 PM

It should be noted that, for the notebook, I don't see anyone claiming that Jackson wrote everything in it. I think this was a Mastronet item way back in the day-- I am sure there is more history that goes with it than the short auction descriptions I could find. I just remembered it and thought I should post to show he could hold a pen to write numbers. I seem to recall another page from it where there was a shaky "Joe" written next to some of the numbers that was attributed to Jackson, so some of the other writing in there could have been his wife, customers, etc. Not sure - shared because hopefully someone will be able to share more.

canjond · #3 10-13-2021, 10:29 PM

In terms of another authenticated JJ autograph, wasn't there a scrap piece of paper that had 3 Joe Jackson signatures on it - a progression of attempts to sig his name - that was cut up and sold? I don't recall the origins of that, but I recall all 3 being authenticated by PSA. I'm only asking as another comparison piece.

ThomasL · #4 10-13-2021, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canjond

In terms of another authenticated JJ autograph, wasn't there a scrap piece of paper that had 3 Joe Jackson signatures on it - a progression of attempts to sig his name - that was cut up and sold? I don't recall the origins of that, but I recall all 3 being authenticated by PSA. I'm only asking as another comparison piece.

Yes this was in I believe one of his Liquor Store little flip notepad/book. This and same kind of thing with an alleged envelope where he practiced signing his name on the back I think none of them were full "Joe Jackson" signatures but all were "Joe". All of them were from later in life

If I recall correctly the notebook had family providence and that was very likely his scribbling...not sure on the envelope. Again just going off memory right now but I think the envelope had two attempts on the back and was bought and cut up by a card company and special cut signature cards made of them, one is a duel cut of "Jo" and "Pete" Rose (attached).

---as for debating the 1911 photo--- Folks here seem strong leaning one way or the other, I can make a good case it is not his signature and believe there are more red flags than green flags...but others have made a few good green flag points (Jobu for one) and I really feel one or two people are just wanting to troll and argue here much like in other "controversial" topic threads (I skip past their posts honestly). Some very respected collectors have expressed it is fake both publicly and privately and that only strengthens my thought it is fake. In the end only one person knows and he died a long time ago. Im happy to express my thoughts if anyone is interest in messages but I just feel like this post is beating a dead horse or two now

ThomasL · #5 10-13-2021, 10:55 PM

The notepad I think had the one "Joe" written and it was likely someone elses named Joe and it was his charge account notation but possibly written by Jackson so not really his signature per say but him writing "Joe" like he would his own name...attached photo

Snowman · #6 10-14-2021, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasL

I can make a good case it is not his signature and believe there are more red flags than green flags...

You keep saying that. Perhaps you could share these arguments with the rest of us? It is the purpose of this thread after all.

rats60 · #7 10-14-2021, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

You keep saying that. Perhaps you could share these arguments with the rest of us? It is the purpose of this thread after all.

They have already been shared in this thread.

Snowman · #8 10-14-2021, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60

They have already been shared in this thread.

No, he most certainly has not even attempted to make that case here. All he has said was "he was illiterate", and "read the thread from 2015 (which is also completely void of any good arguments)", and "many experts agree", and "the Joe Jackson Museum deserves more respect!", and "snowman is an ignoramus" and other such gems.

I am completely open to arguments as to why this isn't his signature. I have no skin in the game. And my default position on any potential Joe Jackson autograph is that the likelihood of it being a fake is extremely high. I'm looking for the arguments on both sides here, and thus far, the 'nay' side is lacking here in this thread.

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