Why I think Cobb wasn't printed with a Brown Hindu back

Pat R · #1 10-31-2021, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

Pats work on the scratches has been amazing. especially doing it with actual cards instead of just scans. I'd been working off saved scans for a while but stopped when I realized Pat had about twice as many cards as I had scans. (And all put together in less time too!)

I still think the short partial scratch on this sheet actually belongs to one side, probably the right. that would make a sheet 24 cards wide with an uneven distribution of subjects.

The group of new information that's come together beginning with looking into the T220 silver sheets will change how we see things. The known track width at ALC is not necessarily material considering Brett Litho printing millions of cards for other ATC sets.
Having done some quick math before, even Scot Rs low estimate for T206 production would have meant nearly constant printing more likely on multiple flatbed presses. The sheet rate of the rotary press really makes it a much simpler job. Even more so if they had a two color rotary press which there's a bit of evidence for.

But there is also very solid evidence that some were printed on a flatbed press.

That would indicate to me that T206 production probably happened at both ALC and Brett litho. (And possibly other places)

It's all going to take some thinking and looking up stuff to sort out.

Would the T206's and other cards have been printed on these Steve?

Here's the patent information on the multi color press that Hett invented and sold to American Lithograph.
https://patentimages.storage.googlea...e/US637603.pdf

steve B · #2 11-01-2021, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

Would the T206's and other cards have been printed on these Steve?

Here's the patent information on the multi color press that Hett invented and sold to American Lithograph.
https://patentimages.storage.googlea...e/US637603.pdf

I believe that some were. Most of the missing color cards are missing two colors. And a lot of cards show pairs of colors in registration with each other but not other colors.

The cards with the nail mark on the other hand are almost for sure a product of a flatbed press, as the nail would have been in the impression cylinder, and there's no reason a press with metal rollers would have a nail.

Pat R · #3 11-01-2021, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

I believe that some were. Most of the missing color cards are missing two colors. And a lot of cards show pairs of colors in registration with each other but not other colors.

The cards with the nail mark on the other hand are almost for sure a product of a flatbed press, as the nail would have been in the impression cylinder, and there's no reason a press with metal rollers would have a nail.

I thought about that card when I asked the question and it's one of the many reasons I think different presses and or facility's might have been used on some sheets.
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What do you think about the possibility of some sheets having the fronts printed on this type of press and the backs printed on a different type press?

steve B · #4 11-03-2021, 12:06 PM

It's possible.

Personally I'm surprised they didn't print the backs first. There's always some damage and wasted sheets and avoiding wasting sheets you already put at least 8 colors on seems a bit crazy.

The only reason I can think of it using the same fronts, "stocking" a lot of them and printing backs as needed for different brands.

Pat R · #5 11-03-2021, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

It's possible.

Personally I'm surprised they didn't print the backs first. There's always some damage and wasted sheets and avoiding wasting sheets you already put at least 8 colors on seems a bit crazy.

The only reason I can think of it using the same fronts, "stocking" a lot of them and printing backs as needed for different brands.

I think there's to much evidence that they didn't do this.

steve B · #6 11-03-2021, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

[/B]

I think there's to much evidence that they didn't do this.

Well, that's the rabbit hole of T206....

To me there's some evidence they did it with some brands, especially in the 350's where there are shared groupings of prints/no prints.
The big brands, Piedmont, SC and maybe a couple others were probably produced almost continually, while others like the SL groups were probably on-offs at first.

That's why a ton more study of the tiny details is needed.
For example, on a simple one.
The Hindu and original OM Sl players were probably printed from a common set of fronts. If we examine a lot of fronts closely, we will either see no difference making a point for a single front press run getting two different backs. If we can tell the difference, that would almost certainly prove each brand got its own front plates.

There being probable different presses and locations makes it all the more complicated. But the place to start is with the more finite groups.

Pat R · #7 11-03-2021, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

Well, that's the rabbit hole of T206....

To me there's some evidence they did it with some brands, especially in the 350's where there are shared groupings of prints/no prints.
The big brands, Piedmont, SC and maybe a couple others were probably produced almost continually, while others like the SL groups were probably on-offs at first.

That's why a ton more study of the tiny details is needed.
For example, on a simple one.
The Hindu and original OM Sl players were probably printed from a common set of fronts. If we examine a lot of fronts closely, we will either see no difference making a point for a single front press run getting two different backs. If we can tell the difference, that would almost certainly prove each brand got its own front plates.

There being probable different presses and locations makes it all the more complicated. But the place to start is with the more finite groups.

But I think there's to much jumping around with the backs when you start comparing them. there are some subjects when compared to another was printed with all the same backs except 1 or 2 if they were done with pre-printed fronts what happened to the one or two backs one of the subjects wasn't printed on?

On the other hand if you're saying that they printed up a bunch of fronts one day and then used those sheets to print 3 or 4 different backs the next day and then the process started again a couple of days later I do agree with that.

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