PWCC - Sorry, Yet Again

CardPadre · #1 11-01-2021, 09:47 AM

Just an add-on item to a PWCC thread, did anyone know that they keep your cards if they don�t get the minimum $10 bid at auction?

I just found this when reading through all their terms and faqs. Out of the 40,000+ cards for sale during their first monthly auction, almost 3000 went without bids and are now owned by PWCC. Wonder if all those owners were made clearly aware of that possibility or if it will be a surprise.
- Will.i.am $t@dy

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vthobby · #2 11-01-2021, 11:19 AM

I just got a very personalized email from PWCC telling me that the items I had in their last auction were sold and will be paid out in time.

Funny thing is......I pulled ALL of my cards from them about 6 months ago and breathed a big sigh of relief when I finally got everything back.

I can't wait to see what I sold (lol) ........ that I did not even have in their auction!

Crazy times indeed!

Peace, Mike

Peter_Spaeth · #3 11-01-2021, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

I just got a very personalized email from PWCC telling me that the items I had in their last auction were sold and will be paid out in time.

Funny thing is......I pulled ALL of my cards from them about 6 months ago and breathed a big sigh of relief when I finally got everything back.

I can't wait to see what I sold (lol) ........ that I did not even have in their auction!

Crazy times indeed!

Peace, Mike

If the purchased cards just go into the vault and show up only on a vault account, think of the Ponzi schemes they could run, selling phantom cards they no longer actually have in possession.

BobC · #4 11-01-2021, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Just an add-on item to a PWCC thread, did anyone know that they keep your cards if they don’t get the minimum $10 bid at auction?

I just found this when reading through all their terms and faqs. Out of the 40,000+ cards for sale during their first monthly auction, almost 3000 went without bids and are now owned by PWCC. Wonder if all those owners were made clearly aware of that possibility or if it will be a surprise.
- William Stady

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I believe you may have misunderstood their policy. It sounds like they're saying that if a card in their auction gets no bids that they keep it to relist in their next auction, not that they actually own the card. I imagine that if/when the card sells in a subsequent auction that they still send the net proceeds from the sale to the original consignor. Sounds like they're trying to protect themselves from the effort and costs of dealing with people who send them items that end up not being worth even the initial bid amount they set their auctions at. Not sure how they actually handle the determination and acceptance of consigned items, but this policy may keep them from having to expend the time and incur the shipping costs of constantly having to send back items that aren't worth their standard minimum auction starting bid.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 11-01-2021, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobC

I believe you may have misunderstood their policy. It sounds like they're saying that if a card in their auction gets no bids that they keep it to relist in their next auction, not that they actually own the card. I imagine that if/when the card sells in a subsequent auction that they still send the net proceeds from the sale to the original consignor. Sounds like they're trying to protect themselves from the effort and costs of dealing with people who send them items that end up not being worth even the initial bid amount they set their auctions at. Not sure how they actually handle the determination and acceptance of consigned items, but this polcy may keep them from having to expend the time and incur the shipping costs of constantly having to send back items that aren't worth their standard minimum auction starting bid.

Yes, they obviously (even if it is Brent lol) aren't just keeping people's cards as their own. They just mean they won't individually relist it after the auction. They could have worded it better.

CardPadre · #6 11-01-2021, 12:57 PM

Maybe I did misinterpret it, absolutely possible. But it literally says "the item will be forfeited to pwcc". No one else reads that as pwcc actually taking ownership of the card?

Peter_Spaeth · #7 11-01-2021, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Maybe I did misinterpret it, absolutely possible. But it literally says "the item will be forfeited to pwcc". No one else reads that as pwcc actually taking ownership of the card?

You have to read it in light of the last sentence. It's poorly worded to be sure.

CardPadre · #8 11-01-2021, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You have to read it in light of the last sentence. It's poorly worded to be sure.

I felt the last sentence referred to unpaid items, not items that did not receive a bid. I felt the unsold item (not receiving a bid) policy was addressed earlier. Again, not totally sure, but I'm stuck in that interpretation at the moment.

Peter_Spaeth · #9 11-01-2021, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardPadre

I felt the last sentence referred to unpaid items, not items that did not receive a bid. I felt the unsold item (not receiving a bid) policy was addressed earlier. Again, not totally sure, but I'm stuck in that interpretation at the moment.

They can't just keep your cards.

bnorth · #10 11-01-2021, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Maybe I did misinterpret it, absolutely possible. But it literally says "the item will be forfeited to pwcc". No one else reads that as pwcc actually taking ownership of the card?

I agree with you it sounds like they get ownership of your card if it doesn't meet their $10 min bid. They are doing this instead of charging you fees for a low end item that didn't sell.

BobC · #11 11-01-2021, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

I agree with you it sounds like they get ownership of your card if it doesn't meet their $10 min bid. They are doing this instead of charging you fees for a low end item that didn't sell.

I find it hard to believe they would/could do that, as it would definitely turn some people off from ever consigning with them. The wording they used definitely leaves something to be desired. But I can also understand them saying they won't simply return the cards because they don't want to go through the work and shipping expense of doing so.

I do not know their consignment policy and if they have any pre-acceptance protocols in place so they don't receive tons of unsolicited consignment submissions that aren't even worth their minimum bid. Unsold lots are not a good look for any AH/seller, and typically incur costs they can't recoup since there was no sale. And the fact that they had approximately 3,000 or so lots that didn't even warrant a bid in their first ever independent platform auction is a bit shocking to me. That seems like an awful high percentage of their initial auction lots got no bids, between 5% - 10%. Makes you wonder if they just did a bad job in accepting items for consignment they shouldn't have, if a lot of people that normally saw and bid on their auctions when they were on Ebay just aren't there now, at least for this first auction, or if there are even other unknown factors causing/influencing this large number of lots to not sell. Probably a combination of factors, that could change as they move forward with future auctions. We'll likely never know for certain though.

Still, if they had 3,000+ lots that didn't even get a $10 minimum bid, and say the average value for those unsold lots was realistically $5 each, that would mean that if their policy of taking possession of anything that didn't sell in their auction was really true that they just grabbed about $15K of cards for nothing. I don't think that will go over well at all with a lot of people, and would add more negative publicity to their name, which is probably the last thing they need right now.

Hmmmm, if they are in fact going to take someone's cards for not selling, I wonder if this could eventually lead to some sort of anti-shilling speculation that they may be able to do things in their auctions so that cards don't sell and they can simply take them for nothing. You know someone would eventually make that accusation if this policy continues.

Not so sure they'd have too many legal issues though as not many, if any, people would go to the time and expense of bringing a lawsuit for an item not even worth $10.

Would love to get the IRS's take on this if they do just take ownership of someone's cards. Would think the IRS could view this as reportable taxable inome to them, equal to at least the FMV of the cards they just took. Would be interesting to know how they internally account for this if they do take someone's cards then.

bnorth · #12 11-01-2021, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobC

I find it hard to believe they would/could do that, as it would definitely turn some people off from ever consigning with them. The wording they used definitely leaves something to be desired. But I can also understand them saying they won't simply return the cards because they don't want to go through the work and shipping expense of doing so.

I do not know their consignment policy and if they have any pre-acceptance protocols in place so they don't receive tons of unsolicited consignment submissions that aren't even worth their minimum bid. Unsold lots are not a good look for any AH/seller, and typically incur costs they can't recoup since there was no sale. And the fact that they had approximately 3,000 or so lots that didn't even warrant a bid in their first ever independent platform auction is a bit shocking to me. That seems like an awful high percentage of their initial auction lots got no bids, between 5% - 10%. Makes you wonder if they just did a bad job in accepting items for consignment they shouldn't have, if a lot of people that normally saw and bid on their auctions when they were on Ebay just aren't there now, at least for this first auction, or if there are even other unknown factors causing/influencing this large number of lots to not sell. Probably a combination of factors, that could change as they move forward with future auctions. We'll likely never know for certain though.

Still, if they had 3,000+ lots that didn't even get a $10 minimum bid, and say the average value for those unsold lots was realistically $5 each, that would mean that if their policy of taking possession of anything that didn't sell in their auction was really true that they just grabbed about $15K of cards for nothing. I don't think that will go over well at all with a lot of people, and would add more negative publicity to their name, which is probably the last thing they need right now.

I get what you are saying, I just see it way differently.

Lets go with your $5 value because it seems reasonable. Wouldn't PWCC charge more than that for fees and return postage of the unsold item? To me it seems like a win win for both parties. It also really pains me to say PWCC is doing anything correctly.

carlsonjok · #13 11-01-2021, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobC

I find it hard to believe they would/could do that, as it would definitely turn some people off from ever consigning with them.

You mean like people with low value cards?

BobbyStrawberry · #14 11-01-2021, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Maybe I did misinterpret it, absolutely possible. But it literally says "the item will be forfeited to pwcc". No one else reads that as pwcc actually taking ownership of the card?

I read it that way. It's wholly unambiguous. Even in context, it's quite clear that they are stating that they are taking ownership of the card(s) and do not intend to ever give them back to you. Presumably they would compensate you if and when the card actually sells.

CardPadre · #15 11-01-2021, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I read it that way. It's wholly unambiguous. Even in context, it's quite clear that they are stating that they are taking ownership of the card(s) and do not intend to ever give them back to you. Presumably they would compensate you if and when the card actually sells.

I would definitely not presume that. That would be like expecting you to give a cut of any sales of your cards to the previous owner.

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BobbyStrawberry · #16 11-01-2021, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardPadre

I would definitely not presume that. That would be like expecting you to give a cut of any sales of your cards to the previous owner.

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I presume it only because not doing so would seem to amount to theft.

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