Gil Hodges

bbcard1 · #1 12-04-2021, 05:46 PM

His stats look light to me. While I appreciate his service, it was far from a sure thing he would have spent much if any time with the Dodgers during those years. He's in the Don Mattingly/Jason Giambi/Will Clark/Norm Cash range, basically Tony Perez light. It's not an egregious oversight nor world it be a head scratching selection.

G1911 · #2 12-04-2021, 06:26 PM

Personally, I think Hodges is real borderline. Modern metrics, and comparisons to the league are not very friendly to him. A 120 OPS+ is not very impressive for a first baseman HOFer. WAR is not a good look. He never led the league in anything but games played and strikeouts. His most similar players are other guys who had a case, but didn't make the Hall. Not a single HOFer in his top 10.

I think he's right on the border, I'd probably vote for him on a combination of his playing and managerial resume (I would probably do this for others too, fine players who were good managers but haven't made the hall because usually one or the other is considered), but he's a bottom tier one for me.

I am, however, surprised he is not in the hall already. Beloved player, Miracle Mets manager, nice guy, huge fan base, Brooklyn Dodger from the 1950's. These things tend to push certain people in whose numbers by themselves aren't quite there, but it never has for Hodges.

If he was a 1B in Cincinnati or Washington, we wouldn't be having this talk.

bbcard1 · #3 12-04-2021, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

I think he's right on the border, I'd probably vote for him on a combination of his playing and managerial resume (I would probably do this for others too, fine players who were good managers but haven't made the hall because usually one or the other is considered), but he's a bottom tier one for me.

Although you can never know what the Hall of Fame voters might do, you can't really combine player and manager or player and executive roles...they are supposed to be considered independently. If you put them together, Bill White becomes and attractive candidate.

G1911 · #4 12-04-2021, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Although you can never know what the Hall of Fame voters might do, you can't really combine player and manager or player and executive roles...they are supposed to be considered independently. If you put them together, Bill White becomes and attractive candidate.

That's why I highlighted these are not usually considered in conjunction, but that I think it should be. Bill White has a fine argument on similar grounds, an excellent player with a significant contribution after his playing days.

earlywynnfan · #5 12-04-2021, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Personally, I think Hodges is real borderline. Modern metrics, and comparisons to the league are not very friendly to him. A 120 OPS+ is not very impressive for a first baseman HOFer. WAR is not a good look. He never led the league in anything but games played and strikeouts. His most similar players are other guys who had a case, but didn't make the Hall. Not a single HOFer in his top 10.

I think he's right on the border, I'd probably vote for him on a combination of his playing and managerial resume (I would probably do this for others too, fine players who were good managers but haven't made the hall because usually one or the other is considered), but he's a bottom tier one for me.

I am, however, surprised he is not in the hall already. Beloved player, Miracle Mets manager, nice guy, huge fan base, Brooklyn Dodger from the 1950's. These things tend to push certain people in whose numbers by themselves aren't quite there, but it never has for Hodges.

If he was a 1B in Cincinnati or Washington, we wouldn't be having this talk.

+1, you said almost everything I was thinking, and better than I would have.

I think this thread is interesting is because the guys who we argue about the most are the "great human beings" guys: Hodges, Minoso, O'Neill, even Mel Harder and Cecil Travis (my choices.). Add in Dale Murphy, or Don Mattingly, who was the first yankee I couldn't hate.

Brianruns10 · #6 12-05-2021, 06:45 PM

Why do you suppose Ted Williams did what he did to keep Hodges out of the HoF years ago? Hodges seemingly had such a great reputation, being well liked, but did Williams have a grudge against him? Or against Campanella, whose vote he threw out on that technicality?

Glad that the wrong has been righted. Hodges deserved induction years ago.

flpm08 · #7 12-05-2021, 09:32 PM

I posted on the Hall of Fame selection thread. I was extremely happy to see that Gil Hodges finally made the Hall Of Fame. Growing up in New Jersey in the late 1940s and 1950s the Dodgers were a fixture on WOR Channel 9. The Boys of Summer now have five starters in the HOF, Reese, Robinson, Campy, Duke and Hodges. I am sure that Doris Kearns Goodwin who wrote that classic Brooklyn Dodger story, Wait 'Till Next Year, is very happy. I remember that it was in that book where she mentioned that Gil's parish priest asked his parishioners to pray for an end of his slump as recalled in an earlier comment. Not only an extremely good baseball player on a very good team but a fine human being.

G1911 · #8 12-05-2021, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianruns10

Why do you suppose Ted Williams did what he did to keep Hodges out of the HoF years ago? Hodges seemingly had such a great reputation, being well liked, but did Williams have a grudge against him? Or against Campanella, whose vote he threw out on that technicality?

Glad that the wrong has been righted. Hodges deserved induction years ago.

I don�t think it�s that Williams was being mean or didn�t like one of them. The rules at that time mandated him to make that ruling; all votes had to be cast in person in the rules. As Chairman (or whatever the formal title was, I forget), Williams simply ruled to follow the rules. I don�t think that should have been the rule, but I think Williams gets a bad rap here.

BobC · #9 12-06-2021, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

I don’t think it’s that Williams was being mean or didn’t like one of them. The rules at that time mandated him to make that ruling; all votes had to be cast in person in the rules. As Chairman (or whatever the formal title was, I forget), Williams simply ruled to follow the rules. I don’t think that should have been the rule, but I think Williams gets a bad rap here.

Since Campenella was unable to make it due to health reasons, they should have had an alternate to bid in his place then. Not doing so was unfair to all the candidates, and a poor move by whoever was running things and made the rules, and not on Williams. And that was extremely disrespectful to Campenella as well, not letting his votes count like that, and him being so ill.

jingram058 · #10 12-04-2021, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbcard1

His stats look light to me. While I appreciate his service, it was far from a sure thing he would have spent much if any time with the Dodgers during those years. He's in the Don Mattingly/Jason Giambi/Will Clark/Norm Cash range, basically Tony Perez light. It's not an egregious oversight nor world it be a head scratching selection.

100% disagree with this.

bbcard1 · #11 12-04-2021, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingram058

100% disagree with this.

You understand you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with stats.

jingram058 · #12 12-04-2021, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbcard1

You understand you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with stats.

Tell me again about Harold Baines.

We agree to disagree.

Mark17 · #13 12-04-2021, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingram058

Tell me again about Harold Baines.

We agree to disagree.

It's never a quality argument to point at the weakest HOF member, because there are dozens of players who are more deserving than the bottom guy.

Having said that, I think Hodges' playing stats + his character + his 1969 Miracle Mets makes him a solid candidate.

bbcard1 · #14 12-04-2021, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingram058

Tell me again about Harold Baines.

We agree to disagree.

So you're saying we should take the worst player in the hall fo fame (which Baines isn't, by the way) and let everyone better than that in?

Snapolit1 · #15 12-04-2021, 08:43 PM

[QUOTE=bbcard1;2171264]So you're saying we should take the worst player in the hall fo fame (which Baines isn't, by the way) and let everyone better than that in?[/QUOTE

Barry Manilow deserves to be in the rock and roll hall of fame over Jimi Hendrix because he has 25 x more top 10 hits and sold more tickets to more shows.

James Dean? Hell, his career is nothing compared to Tom Cruise. Look at the numbers.

And don't get me started on Otis Redding. Hell, he's no Ed Sheeren to be sure.

Peter_Spaeth · #16 12-04-2021, 08:50 PM

[QUOTE=Snapolit1;2171273]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbcard1

So you're saying we should take the worst player in the hall fo fame (which Baines isn't, by the way) and let everyone better than that in?[/QUOTE

Barry Manilow deserves to be in the rock and roll hall of fame over Jimi Hendrix because he has 25 x more top 10 hits and sold more tickets to more shows.

As sappy and as awful as it is, I've always loved Weekend in New England.

BobC · #17 12-04-2021, 11:13 PM

[QUOTE=Snapolit1;2171273]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbcard1

So you're saying we should take the worst player in the hall fo fame (which Baines isn't, by the way) and let everyone better than that in?[/QUOTE

Barry Manilow deserves to be in the rock and roll hall of fame over Jimi Hendrix because he has 25 x more top 10 hits and sold more tickets to more shows.

James Dean? Hell, his career is nothing compared to Tom Cruise. Look at the numbers.

And don't get me started on Otis Redding. Hell, he's no Ed Sheeren to be sure.

It's called the ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame! Nothing against Manilow, but that ain't R&R that he does. LOL

jingram058 · #18 12-04-2021, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbcard1

You understand you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with stats.

Why not let the metrics go for a minute? I ask you to read this, please:

https://www.mlb.com/news/gil-hodges-...of-summer-star

Peter_Spaeth · #19 12-04-2021, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbcard1

His stats look light to me. While I appreciate his service, it was far from a sure thing he would have spent much if any time with the Dodgers during those years. He's in the Don Mattingly/Jason Giambi/Will Clark/Norm Cash range, basically Tony Perez light. It's not an egregious oversight nor world it be a head scratching selection.

He ranks 40th under the JAWS formula for 1st basemen. I think he's getting a lot of love based on nostalgia, Dodgers, and popularity. There's a reason he hasn't made it after several decades of eligibility. Would it be the worst thing that's ever happened to the Hall, of course not.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Gil Hodges	mrmopar	Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports	2	03-26-2020 04:33 PM
FS: Gil Hodges GPC	Johnny630	Autographs & Game Used B/S/T	1	08-27-2016 09:49 AM
FS: Gil Hodges 3x5	RichardSimon	Autographs & Game Used B/S/T	0	08-01-2016 07:53 PM
SOLD: Pre Rookie 1945 Gil Hodges GPC - From Military Days - Signed 'Corp Gil Hodges'	bender07	Autographs & Game Used B/S/T	4	11-25-2014 11:50 AM
WTB: Gil Hodges	paulcarek	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	4	04-26-2011 07:32 AM