PWCC Boggles the Mind. New Auctions

[Bobbycee]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

They have to earn a fee. It's the same difference if they take it off the hammer price and call it a seller's fee, or add it to the hammer price and call it a buyer's premium, because any rational buyer will bid factoring in the premium and will end up paying the same either way.

Simply stated, rather than bidding 120 for an item on ebay, you would bid 100 knowing 20 is going to be added.

Why buyer's premiums remain an issue for people really is beyond me. They're an issue for consignors to be sure, because they affect their take by depressing hammer price, not for buyers.

It does make a difference Peter. For those on a relative card budget, 20% could mean paying significantly more for a card. You gave an example of winning a card for $100 but now having to pay $120 with BP. What if you win a card for $400, now it becomes a $480 card, etc. That will limit the smaller collector who may want to bid on multiple cards. I for one, don't like forking over an extra 20%.

Maybe this keeps PWCC in business. They are certainly scrambling around lately, quite clumsily. They had a brief niche, like Ebay. Now they are like all the other auction houses & crappy servicen thrown in too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

It does make a difference Peter. For those on a relative card budget, 20% could mean paying significantly more for a card. You gave an example of winning a card for $100 but now having to pay $120 with BP. What if you win a card for $400, now it becomes a $480 card, etc. That will limit the smaller collector who may want to bid on multiple cards. I for one, don't like forking over an extra 20%.

Maybe this keeps PWCC in business. They are certainly scrambling around lately, quite clumsily. They had a brief niche, like Ebay. Now they are like all the other auction houses & crappy servicen thrown in too.

I am sorry you really don't understand how this works. Read what I posted again. The same card you "win" for 400 (plus BP) would have cost you 480 on ebay because people would have bid 20 percent MORE if there was no BP. It's a 480 card in both worlds. You aren't saving anything on ebay or paying more to PWCC.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am sorry you really don't understand how this works. Read what I posted again. The same card you "win" for 400 (plus BP) would have cost you 480 on ebay because people would have bid 20 percent MORE if there was no BP. It's a 480 card in both worlds. You aren't saving anything on ebay or paying more to PWCC.

Here I thought the buyers premium was just a way for the AH to pay the consignor less than the real sale price.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

It does make a difference Peter. For those on a relative card budget, 20% could mean paying significantly more for a card. You gave an example of winning a card for $100 but now having to pay $120 with BP. What if you win a card for $400, now it becomes a $480 card, etc. That will limit the smaller collector who may want to bid on multiple cards. I for one, don't like forking over an extra 20%.

Maybe this keeps PWCC in business. They are certainly scrambling around lately, quite clumsily. They had a brief niche, like Ebay. Now they are like all the other auction houses & crappy servicen thrown in too.

I think the thought is of you value you a card at $100 you now bid it at $82ish. From the buyer side really no difference. Maybe I’m missing something.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I think the thought is of you value you a card at $100 you now bid it at $82ish. From the buyer side really no difference. Maybe I’m missing something.

Exactly.

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Exactly.

All premiums are paid by the consignor. Unfortunately, 20% seems to be the norm.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

All premiums are paid by the consignor. Unfortunately, 20% seems to be the norm.

Right, and we can debate if that's too high, but the angst by BIDDERS about buyers' premiums is completely misplaced and reflects a basic lack of understanding unfortunately.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Right, and we can debate if that's too high, but the angst by BIDDERS about buyers' premiums is completely misplaced and reflects a basic lack of understanding unfortunately.

I joined this forum 9 years ago, and the "old timers" back then were sick of this topic. Nine years later, and we still have to explain it. Ad Nauseam doesn't even do justice to how often this topic has been raised and explained.

[Steve D]

To me, the biggest change will be when payments are due.

Up to now, winners could wait until the entire auction ended at the end of the month, and then have five days to make payment. This worked great, as I, and many others, get paid once a month. You could win an auction on, say, the 12th of the month, and then wait until the end of the month when you get paid, to send in your payment; allowing you to get a card you may not have been able to get had payment been due sooner.

Now, with the change to weekly auctions ending every Sunday, payments will be due more often, eliminating this payment "float". It looks like you'll still have ten days after the auction, to make your payment, but in many cases, you won't be able to wait until the 1st day of the following month.

Steve

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

It does make a difference Peter. For those on a relative card budget, 20% could mean paying significantly more for a card. You gave an example of winning a card for $100 but now having to pay $120 with BP. What if you win a card for $400, now it becomes a $480 card, etc. That will limit the smaller collector who may want to bid on multiple cards. I for one, don't like forking over an extra 20%.

Maybe this keeps PWCC in business. They are certainly scrambling around lately, quite clumsily. They had a brief niche, like Ebay. Now they are like all the other auction houses & crappy servicen thrown in too.

I think most...if not all buyers keep the BP in mind when bidding and factor it in as a cost. If cards had absolute values, and they don't, then the high bid would be placed at a point where the added BP would take it to that magic absolute value. In your example if the card had an absolute value of $400 and there was a 20% BP then your high bid could only be $333.

[Yoda]

Ebay auction listings for pre-war and vintage have dried up since PWCC was shown the door. BIN's are even more ludicrous than before. Even with Moser and Co. and known shilling, it was nice not to know there was an extra 20% added on if you won a PWCC auction.

[Kidnapped18]

I mostly like the changes that PWCC has made except the 20% BP
Not a fan of the BP since they started out not charging it in their monthly auctions
They initially had a scale that they paid the sellers a percentage of the final price
But like Peter said you just need to factor the BP into the price you are willing to pay now

[Bobbycee]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Ebay auction listings for pre-war and vintage have dried up since PWCC was shown the door. BIN's are even more ludicrous than before. Even with Moser and Co. and known shilling, it was nice not to know there was an extra 20% added on if you won a PWCC auction.

This is how I view it.

[Mjpadilla84]

It’s not a flat 20% commission, it adjusts depending on the sale price. It seems fair to me

[Mjpadilla84]

The buyer premium of 20% is irrelevant, you still bid on what you think the card is worth keeping in mind the extra 20%. This is standard for pretty much all auctions

[Exhibitman]

Well, I hear they slash their, er, commissions...

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Mjpadilla84

The buyer premium of 20% is irrelevant, you still bid on what you think the card is worth keeping in mind the extra 20%. This is standard for pretty much all auctions

I agree, but in the frenzy of an auction closing with extended bidding and passions running high, it is hard, in the heat of the moment, to be rational and factor in that 20% into your total acquisition budget.
Like the famous Mark Twain quote, "An erection has no conscience." Cards do provoke animal instincts.