PSA backlog

[glchen]

Originally Posted by swarmee

MARX cards, very large bulk submitter, is defaulting on the million(s) it owes to PSA. But they took cash up front from their customers and seem to have frittered it away, and can no longer pay for the subs now that the bill came due.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1503473

Josh from PCSportscards (another bulk submitter) posted in that thread that some of his clients have also been stiffing his company by walking away from worthless slabs. The "base card revolution" seems to have crashed less than 2 years after it began.

Originally Posted by Pat R

Did they use their Value guide in determining this? In Bobby's most recent sub ($500 and under declared value) there was an upcharge on 6 cards and using PSA's own guide on the values they were all under $500. Was your card over their value on it?
https://www.psacard.com/priceguide/b...card-values/13

I used this from PSA's site when the declared value is understated: Link.

The relevant text is as follows:

"If you refuse, or are unable, to pay PSA for the accurate Service Level, then PSA will return the item to you unprocessed at your cost, and you will be charged for the Service Level at which you submitted the item."

Therefore, I still had to pay the upfront fee for the service level that I submitted the cards at, but I did not have to pay the upcharge. The cards were returned to me unslabbed. Saying that, this had to go through approval at PSA, and they told me this would be a one-time exception.

When I spoke with the PSA rep, we didn't go into how they were valuing my cards, so I can't say with certainty what methodology they were using. I'm pretty sure they were not using the PSA price guide. It seemed more that they were googling the card and checking latest prices for the card at that grade. However, I really am not sure on this part. They could be using VCP for all I know.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by glchen

I used this from PSA's site when the declared value is understated: Link.

The relevant text is as follows:

"If you refuse, or are unable, to pay PSA for the accurate Service Level, then PSA will return the item to you unprocessed at your cost, and you will be charged for the Service Level at which you submitted the item."

Therefore, I still had to pay the upfront fee for the service level that I submitted the cards at, but I did not have to pay the upcharge. The cards were returned to me unslabbed. Saying that, this had to go through approval at PSA, and they told me this would be a one-time exception.

When I spoke with the PSA rep, we didn't go into how they were valuing my cards, so I can't say with certainty what methodology they were using. I'm pretty sure they were not using the PSA price guide. It seemed more that they were googling the card and checking latest prices for the card at that grade. However, I really am not sure on this part. They could be using VCP for all I know.

PSA recently acquired CardLadder.com. I'm pretty sure the primary reason for teh acquisition was to be able to have a real-time price guide for them to use for stuff like this.

[Johnny630]

Does anyone else think PSA/Collectors Universe could be sold to Fanatics down the road maybe in 3-5 years ?
I have a feeling it could happen and would be huge for the hobby.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Does anyone else think PSA/Collectors Universe could be sold to Fanatics down the road maybe in 3-5 years ?
I have a feeling it could happen and would be huge for the hobby.

That would be awesome. They could make, grade, and sell all under one roof. What more could we as collectors ask for.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That would be awesome. They could make, grade, and sell all under one roof. What more could we as collectors ask for.

I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if it happens.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if it happens.

If they marked the slab with some special label stating the card was printed, slabbed, and sold without anyone having the chance to alter it. They should be able to get a huge premium. Add to that the manufactured rarity they could make beyond silly cash from that service. Why share the profit when they could make it all.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bnorth

If they marked the slab with some special label stating the card was printed, slabbed, and sold without anyone having the chance to alter it. They should be able to get a huge premium. Add to that the manufactured rarity they could make beyond silly cash from that service. Why share the profit when they could make it all.

Exactly

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That would be awesome. They could make, grade, and sell all under one roof. What more could we as collectors ask for.

But would they want to admit that 90% of the stuff they were producing was less than perfect? Or would their quality control not permit anything other than 10s to leave the factory?

I can imagine buying unopened product direct from the factory and finding out it had been graded, by them, in the 7 to 8 range.....

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That would be awesome. They could make, grade, and sell all under one roof. What more could we as collectors ask for.

Yup. No conflict of interest there at all...

[Exhibitman]

Some random observations:

Fanatics already authenticates and has the tools to slab:




It doesn't need to buy PSA, just expand its existing capacity.

PSA has been essentially shut-down for a year. It has distorted the market for slabbed cards and will continue to do so. I think part of the price surge on some sets is lack of additional PSA cards in the market. Pre-pandemic you could send in a standard-level order and have an expectation of getting it back in 30-90 days. Not ideal but not impossible. A business could establish a reasonable flow of inventory by staggering submissions. That has been impossible for a year and doesn't look likely again for at least another year. Clog up the supply chain and it clobbers the whole marketing machinery.

SGC is definitely the main beneficiary of PSA's backlog. If you follow postwar cards at auction you must have seen how many are getting into SGC holders now compared to pre-backlog. I never thought I would see SGC slabs on 1952 T Mantle, 1954T Aaron, etc. It is the only viable established TPG for maintaining any decent inventory flow or for having less valuable but slab-worthy cards encapsulated for auction.

CSG is about to ruin its timeliness reputation with its nutty deal with eBay (see the other thread).

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Some random observations:

Fanatics already authenticates and has the tools to slab:




It doesn't need to buy PSA, just expand its existing capacity.

PSA has been essentially shut-down for a year. It has distorted the market for slabbed cards and will continue to do so. I think part of the price surge on some sets is lack of additional PSA cards in the market. Pre-pandemic you could send in a standard-level order and have an expectation of getting it back in 30-90 days. Not ideal but not impossible. A business could establish a reasonable flow of inventory by staggering submissions. That has been impossible for a year and doesn't look likely again for at least another year. Clog up the supply chain and it clobbers the whole marketing machinery.

SGC is definitely the main beneficiary of PSA's backlog. If you follow postwar cards at auction you must have seen how many are getting into SGC holders now compared to pre-backlog. I never thought I would see SGC slabs on 1952 T Mantle, 1954T Aaron, etc. It is the only viable established TPG for maintaining any decent inventory flow or for having less valuable but slab-worthy cards encapsulated for auction.

CSG is about to ruin its timeliness reputation with its nutty deal with eBay (see the other thread).

So I agree with you that SGC was the beneficiary last year, but that moreso because SGC was the bandaid because people couldn't submit with PSA. I am very interested to see how SCG does this year.

I recently saw a chart that PSA graded last month more than 6x the amount of cards SGC graded. With the decrease in PSA grading prices, does that continue? We will see.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Does anyone else think PSA/Collectors Universe could be sold to Fanatics down the road maybe in 3-5 years ?
I have a feeling it could happen and would be huge for the hobby.

I'd opined about that in earlier threads/posts and wondered if Fanatics may not just take over the distribution from breakers themselves, and in so doing, maybe bypass the TPGs altogether and offer to slab cards acquired directly from them as "Uncirculated".

But can also see them maybe looking to acquire a TPG as well. No sense in reinventing the wheel, right?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by BobC

I'd opined about that in earlier threads/posts and wondered if Fanatics may not just take over the distribution from breakers themselves, and in so doing, maybe bypass the TPGs altogether and offer to slab cards acquired directly from them as "Uncirculated".

But can also see them maybe looking to acquire a TPG as well. No sense in reinventing the wheel, right?

That’s right most likely would be a very smart business move for Mr. Turner he has a great business mind.

[swarmee]

I thought they were already heavily invested in CSG as well, or had overlapping ownership groups. I don't see them making a play for PSA, but they could buy out SGC to handle the eBay authentication.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

That’s right most likely would be a very smart business move for Mr. Turner he has a great business mind.

Can see the sports league and player ownership concerns looking to develop a more vertical organization structure and approach to take advantage of all the potential profit activities relating to their product. They're already doing it with the formation and ongoing operations of Fanatics, followed by the acquisition of licensing rights of the major US sports for card production, and most recently with the acquisition of Topps. So now the sports leagues and players have gained control of the sports card manufacturing market relative to major US sports. Question is, will they try to go even further then and attempt to take over the distribution aspects, maybe trying to cut out wholesalers and breakers. And then expand even further into the secondary market aspects, such as forming/acquiring their own auction house, vault service, and even venturing into the TPG arena. My guess is the sports leagues and players are tired of seeing others profit so much off of what they do and their fame and popularity.

And as for Nat Turner, he would be one of the business people/concerns that Fanatics and their ownership would be looking to possibly supplant or displace, or maybe even just acquire at some point, just like was done to Topps.

Just look at how the various sports leagues are trying to partner up and embrace and align themselves with the gambling industry, all in an attempt to get at least some part of that profit for themselves as well. The difficulty there is in not looking like total a--hole hypocrites who permanently ban people for being involved in gambling and with gamblers, and suddenly doing a complete turnaround and being in bed with them. I guess the thinking is maybe that if only a few people are involved with gamblers and making money off of it, that is the horror and damnation of the respective sports. But if maybe the sports leagues and the players can ALL make some profit off of holding hands and becoming involved with gamblers and the gambling industry, well.......that's maybe a horse of a different color!

Makes you begin to wonder, were the Black Sox players permanently banned because they made money they got from some gamblers, or was it really because they didn't figure out how to have what they did make money for everyone else involved in baseball as well, especially the owners?

[babraham]

I was informed today that my PSA order was being shipped out.
It ended up being way faster than I expected.
Sent in 3 cards at the beginning of the month for their "regular" ($100) service.
They received them on 1/11 and I got the grades today and it moved to shipping complete status.

15 total day turnaround once they received them...I was expecting month(s).