2022 Baseball Hall of Fame - tracker

HOF Auto Rookies · #1 01-25-2022, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas00

What? There is no other way to decide who's a better player than using stats. What is beyond stats that makes bonds come anywhere close to being a better player than Hank? I can't find it.

Sure, let's talk about base running, stealing, defense and arm. Bonds hands down. Not even close. Aaron had negative dWar. Have you ever watched baseball? Then you should know there's more than just stats to impact a game and the individual/teams success.

profholt82 · #2 01-25-2022, 05:28 PM

Just saw the headline that Bonds and Clemens didn't get in on their final year of eligibility. It's nice to see some good news for a change.

bmattioli · #3 01-25-2022, 05:33 PM

No brainer for Ortiz.. He IS Boston!!

Marchillo · #4 01-25-2022, 05:40 PM

BOSTON - Commissioner Rob Manfred says it�s unfair for Red Sox slugger David Ortiz�s legacy to be tarnished by his positive drug test in Major League Baseball�s 2003 anonymous drug testing survey, since it�s unknown whether Ortiz actually used a performance-enhancing drug.

There were at least 10 false positives in the survey testing, Manfred said Sunday before Ortiz�s final regular-season game at Fenway Park, and it�s possible that Ortiz was one of the false tests.
Manfred confirmed that Ortiz also has never failed a drug test since MLB implemented its drug policy in 2004 and strengthened it numerous times in the decade-plus since.
�Even if your name was on that (anonymous) list,�� Manfred said, �it�s entirely possible that you were not a positive.

Dead-Ball-Hitter · #5 01-25-2022, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchillo

BOSTON - Commissioner Rob Manfred says it�s unfair for Red Sox slugger David Ortiz�s legacy to be tarnished by his positive drug test in Major League Baseball�s 2003 anonymous drug testing survey, since it�s unknown whether Ortiz actually used a performance-enhancing drug.

There were at least 10 false positives in the survey testing, Manfred said Sunday before Ortiz�s final regular-season game at Fenway Park, and it�s possible that Ortiz was one of the false tests.
Manfred confirmed that Ortiz also has never failed a drug test since MLB implemented its drug policy in 2004 and strengthened it numerous times in the decade-plus since.
�Even if your name was on that (anonymous) list,�� Manfred said, �it�s entirely possible that you were not a positive.

Sing it, sister!!

SyrNy1960 · #6 01-25-2022, 05:40 PM

Voting results

G1911 · #7 01-25-2022, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmattioli

No brainer for Ortiz.. He IS Boston!!

A no brainer�. IF he was not the only person completely forgiven for steroids while every other known user, including players far better than Ortiz, are denied. If we want to throw in a Red Sock user, why would it be him instead of Clemens or Ramirez? The double standard is obvious.

Lucas00 · #8 01-25-2022, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Sure, let's talk about base running, stealing, defense and arm. Bonds hands down. Not even close. Aaron had negative dWar. Have you ever watched baseball? Then you should know there's more than just stats to impact a game and the individual/teams success.

Calm down we are sharing opinions. You think stolen bases and .984 vs .980 fielding beats hank aaron? A negative dWar is almost meaningless for individual or team success. Many amazing defenders are negative or a point or two above zero. Griffey jr had a staggering 2.2 career dWar. Not to mention Hank played quite a few games at first base which obviously hurt his defense.

Hank was busy running out his 3771 hits while bonds was jogging to first with a full sprint still reserved for stealing second after his 2500 walks. Of course he�s going to have more steals.

Bonds didn�t even hit .300 with 2500 less ABs. That�s a bit pathetic for a best ever contender imo.
�Oh well he got walked allot�
Exactly right.
So extremely high chances his career average would�ve been even lower than what it is now if he didn�t get those walks.

We haven�t even factored in performance enhancement that skewed his physical abilities. Arm strength and Speed namely. Basically the only 2 things he could beat hank in.

Bonds will never be the best.
Ever.

HOF Auto Rookies · #9 01-25-2022, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Calm down we are sharing opinions. You think stolen bases and .984 vs .980 fielding beats hank aaron? A negative dWar is almost meaningless for individual or team success. Many amazing defenders are negative or a point or two above zero. Griffey jr had a staggering 2.2 career dWar. Not to mention Hank played quite a few games at first base which obviously hurt his defense.

Hank was busy running out his 3771 hits while bonds was jogging to first with a full sprint still reserved for stealing second after his 2500 walks. Of course he�s going to have more steals.

Bonds didn�t even hit .300 with 2500 less ABs. That�s a bit pathetic for a best ever contender imo.
�Oh well he got walked allot�
Exactly right.
So extremely high chances his career average would�ve been even lower than what it is now if he didn�t get those walks.

We haven�t even factored in performance enhancement that skewed his physical abilities. Arm strength and Speed namely. Basically the only 2 things he could beat hank in.

Bonds will never be the best.
Ever.

I can nit pick plenty too. Bonds is the best. Ever. Everything backs it up. And much better than Aaron.

We'll never see eye to eye, that's fine. Always an interesting topic.

Lucas00 · #10 01-25-2022, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

I can nit pick plenty too. Bonds is the best. Ever. Everything backs it up. And much better than Aaron.

We'll never see eye to eye, that's fine. Always an interesting topic.

Yes it�s a very interesting conversation, And I agree I could never see eye to eye on this topic with you

.

Fred · #11 01-26-2022, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

I can nit pick plenty too. Bonds is the best. Ever. Everything backs it up. And much better than Aaron.

We'll never see eye to eye, that's fine. Always an interesting topic.

I wonder how good Aaron would have been if he had a PED assist. Greenies are amphetamines, not really attributed growth/strength enhancement. The bench mark for HRs could probably be well over 800 if Aaron had PEDs.

That said, Bonds most likely would have hit 500HRs without the PEDs. Bonds is a poster child for what PEDs can do to enhance a career. Bonds without PEDs would have put up HOF numbers, he was just that good. I'm not a Bonds fan, I would be if he didn't lie and try to cover it up. I have much more respect for McGwire because he knew better than to try and BS the public. Look at A-Rod. Wow, only about half the requirement to be enshrined and look at the numbers he put up (oh yeah, another one of those I never used PED guys).

HOF Auto Rookies · #12 01-26-2022, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred

I wonder how good Aaron would have been if he had a PED assist. Greenies are amphetamines, not really attributed growth/strength enhancement. The bench mark for HRs could probably be well over 800 if Aaron had PEDs.

That said, Bonds most likely would have hit 500HRs without the PEDs. Bonds is a poster child for what PEDs can do to enhance a career. Bonds without PEDs would have put up HOF numbers, he was just that good. I'm not a Bonds fan, I would be if he didn't lie and try to cover it up. I have much more respect for McGwire because he knew better than to try and BS the public. Look at A-Rod. Wow, only about half the requirement to be enshrined and look at the numbers he put up (oh yeah, another one of those I never used PED guys).

It's certainly fun to entertain and think about for Aaron.

I don't have an opinion on Bonds' HR total if he never used (don't really care honestly), but totally agree on what you said in regards to the character aspect. It's tough to see how someone can be that angry over such small trivial things. Oh well.

I was very surprised to see Sheffield get more votes than A-Rod, maybe character issues and PEDs kind of like Bonds?

Regardless of how it's looked at, it just sucks. While there may be so called "winners and loses" out of this, in my opinion, I still feel like we all lose. All this arguing etc is not how I want to remember baseball.

Bigdaddy · #13 01-26-2022, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Regardless of how it's looked at, it just sucks. While there may be so called "winners and loses" out of this, in my opinion, I still feel like we all lose. All this arguing etc is not how I want to remember baseball.

+1

Peter_Spaeth · #14 01-26-2022, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred

I wonder how good Aaron would have been if he had a PED assist. Greenies are amphetamines, not really attributed growth/strength enhancement. The bench mark for HRs could probably be well over 800 if Aaron had PEDs.

That said, Bonds most likely would have hit 500HRs without the PEDs. Bonds is a poster child for what PEDs can do to enhance a career. Bonds without PEDs would have put up HOF numbers, he was just that good. I'm not a Bonds fan, I would be if he didn't lie and try to cover it up. I have much more respect for McGwire because he knew better than to try and BS the public. Look at A-Rod. Wow, only about half the requirement to be enshrined and look at the numbers he put up (oh yeah, another one of those I never used PED guys).

Not sure I am reading your post right, but A Rod admitted it.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847

jayshum · #15 01-26-2022, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not sure I am reading your post right, but A Rod admitted it.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847

Eventually, yes, but before that, there were plenty of denials.

Fred · #16 01-26-2022, 11:12 AM

Peter, that's correct, he did admit it, after he got caught. Kind of like the Palmeiro thing. Notice how many votes Rafael got.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAxo4pCITRM

A-Rod was a beast of a hitter. The one thing he didn't learn was a bit of humility when he was playing with Jeter. Does humility count for HOF voting? It shouldn't but apparently it does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=994hkVav5qM

Peter_Spaeth · #17 01-26-2022, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred

Peter, that's correct, he did admit it, after he got caught. Kind of like the Palmeiro thing. Notice how many votes Rafael got.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAxo4pCITRM

A-Rod was a beast of a hitter. The one thing he didn't learn was a bit of humility when he was playing with Jeter. Does humility count for HOF voting? It shouldn't but apparently it does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=994hkVav5qM

He was a very good defensive player as well IMO. Clearly upper tier all time great in terms of performance. On the whole very unlikeable guy which will not help his cause.

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