And it's in, Ortiz has been elected to the Hall

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

There is a significant difference between 1) players who tested positive or have significant other evidence of use and 2) players who face accusations. Some of group 2) have gotten in. Ortiz is the first of group 1) to get in while numerous far more deserving (and obviously so) candidates in the same boat have been excluded.



I find it difficult to believe that Martinez admitted to steroid use on live national television and that this video does not exist. No online articles or discussion of it prior to now seem to exist. I don't see how this could have been memory holed, it would have been big news at the time for at least a subset of fans who hate the Red Sox.

I could be wrong but I doubt the majority of fans care about steroids/cheating. I was watching a old game recently and the announcer was using the word juicing when referring to home runs. Absolutely nobody cared back then and it was a joke to mention it.

One thing I have noticed when watching older tv shows and older ball games is they are removing references to steroids and racial slurs. Maybe the interview I watched got changed immediately. I have no idea all I know is I have zero reason to lie about it. I have 4 favorite players and 3 of them are Red Sox players so I am far from a Red Sox hater.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by bnorth

One thing I have noticed when watching older tv shows and older ball games is they are removing references to steroids and racial slurs. Maybe the interview I watched got changed immediately. I have no idea all I know is I have zero reason to lie about it. I have 4 favorite players and 3 of them are Red Sox players so I am far from a Red Sox hater.

Nobody thinks you're lying. We're all just highly skeptical that Pedro actually said what you think you heard.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I could be wrong but I doubt the majority of fans care about steroids/cheating. I was watching a old game recently and the announcer was using the word juicing when referring to home runs. Absolutely nobody cared back then and it was a joke to mention it.

One thing I have noticed when watching older tv shows and older ball games is they are removing references to steroids and racial slurs. Maybe the interview I watched got changed immediately. I have no idea all I know is I have zero reason to lie about it. I have 4 favorite players and 3 of them are Red Sox players so I am far from a Red Sox hater.

Okay. So nobody cares about steroids, despite the heavy press and fan focus for the last quarter century on them. References to steroids (and racial slurs) are being removed in the media and old archival footage. The interview was either completely hidden or cleverly edited by a cabal or something working to hide steroid admissions to eliminate Pedro’s blatant admission to steroid use, because nobody cares anyways.

Does this nationally televised event being memory holed by a secret conspiracy truly sound more reasonable to conclude than that the event is being misremembered and it did not happen as claimed?

I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell, while the pigs are flying.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by G1911

Okay. So nobody cares about steroids, despite the heavy press and fan focus for the last quarter century on them. References to steroids (and racial slurs) are being removed in the media and old archival footage. The interview was either completely hidden or cleverly edited by a cabal or something working to hide steroid admissions to eliminate Pedro’s blatant admission to steroid use, because nobody cares anyways.

Does this nationally televised event being memory holed by a secret conspiracy truly sound more reasonable to conclude than that the event is being misremembered and it did not happen as claimed?

I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell, while the pigs are flying.

Honestly, I realized nobody cares about steroids when Manny came back from his suspension to a hero's welcome. And to all the people who want to condemn the juicers and maybe-juicers, who want to make Bud and the owner pariahs, can I assume they stopped watching baseball in the late 90's? Because to blame the players and the union and the owners and the writers for doing nothing about steroids, but still going to games and buying the gear and all of that seems hypocritical to me. Fake stats or not, 1998 was an immensely enjoyable season to watch, and about the only person I can remember who cared about steroids then was Rick Reilly.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Honestly, I realized nobody cares about steroids when Manny came back from his suspension to a hero's welcome. And to all the people who want to condemn the juicers and maybe-juicers, who want to make Bud and the owner pariahs, can I assume they stopped watching baseball in the late 90's? Because to blame the players and the union and the owners and the writers for doing nothing about steroids, but still going to games and buying the gear and all of that seems hypocritical to me. Fake stats or not, 1998 was an immensely enjoyable season to watch, and about the only person I can remember who cared about steroids then was Rick Reilly.

If nobody cared, Manny would not be sitting at a mere 28% of the vote.

I am agnostic on if steroids SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be a primary factor in the collective memory or hall elections. I have an opinion on blatant double standards and being logically consistent.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by G1911

If nobody cared, Manny would not be sitting at a mere 28% of the vote.

HOF voters and average, everyday baseball fans are two very mutually exclusive groups.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by BobC

HOF voters and average, everyday baseball fans are two very mutually exclusive groups.

Yes, I'm sure all the online discussion among fans the last quarter century is because nobody cares. The opinion that steroids should keep people out seems to be decreasing among "everyday fans", but that nobody cares seems to be clearly untrue. People sure talk a lot about something they don't care about.

[Republicaninmass]

Maybe we can have congress launch another investigation?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think people care except if the player is on YOUR team, or if you for some other reason like him.