Brady Retiring…

[Carter08]

Gronk will play for the Bills in 2022 - write that down.

As a huge Bill fan I have hated Brady for so many reasons but I put him as the football GOAT and probably the GOAT of all major sports. Just wondering why he was so good. Wasn’t arm strength, wasn’t mobility, certainly wasn’t top notch receivers for some of his years. My view is he comes down to a brilliant reader of defenses, an uncanny ability to not get nervous in the pocket (eyes in the back of his head to avoid pressure and just enough mobility to slide around it), odd QB sneak smarts, plenty enough arm strength, and darn good accuracy. All combined those things allowed him to put up video game numbers. Eventually he was so good that his and the Pats’ mystique got into the heads of other teams almost as much as his ridiculous ability. Oh, also important is film study and a commitment to doing whatever it takes, including maintaining his body, stemming from pure love of the game and desire to be the best. Thoughts?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Gronk will play for the Bills in 2022 - write that down.

As a huge Bill fan I have hated Brady for so many reasons but I put him as the football GOAT and probably the GOAT of all major sports. Just wondering why he was so good. Wasn’t arm strength, wasn’t mobility, certainly wasn’t top notch receivers for some of his years. My view is he comes down to a brilliant reader of defenses, an uncanny ability to not get nervous in the pocket (eyes in the back of his head to avoid pressure and just enough mobility to slide around it), odd QB sneak smarts, plenty enough arm strength, and darn good accuracy. All combined those things allowed him to put up video game numbers. Eventually he was so good that his and the Pats’ mystique got into the heads of other teams almost as much as his ridiculous ability. Oh, also important is film study and a commitment to doing whatever it takes, including maintaining his body, stemming from pure love of the game and desire to be the best. Thoughts?

It may not sound like much, but I always thought one of his great strengths was knowing when to just throw the ball away and wait for the next play or series. Obviously he threw his share of picks but a lot of those were on the receivers and my impression over the years was that he threw relatively few in important situations.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It may not sound like much, but I always thought one of his great strengths was knowing when to just throw the ball away and wait for the next play or series. Obviously he threw his share of picks but a lot of those were on the receivers and my impression over the years was that he threw relatively few in important situations.

Yeah, knowing who would be open and being able to find another guy that’s open if he isn’t. Pretty key.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Gronk will play for the Bills in 2022 - write that down.

As a huge Bill fan I have hated Brady for so many reasons but I put him as the football GOAT and probably the GOAT of all major sports. Just wondering why he was so good. Wasn’t arm strength, wasn’t mobility, certainly wasn’t top notch receivers for some of his years. My view is he comes down to a brilliant reader of defenses, an uncanny ability to not get nervous in the pocket (eyes in the back of his head to avoid pressure and just enough mobility to slide around it), odd QB sneak smarts, plenty enough arm strength, and darn good accuracy. All combined those things allowed him to put up video game numbers. Eventually he was so good that his and the Pats’ mystique got into the heads of other teams almost as much as his ridiculous ability. Oh, also important is film study and a commitment to doing whatever it takes, including maintaining his body, stemming from pure love of the game and desire to be the best. Thoughts?

I agree with all of that, but on the flip side there may have been too much film study, if you know what I mean . . . ahem, the spygate scandal. And although Brady was in a key position to benefit from the Cheatriot's knowledge of their opponents signals during games, I put the blame for that scandal squarely on Bill Bellicheat. Still, I believe that scandal enabled Brady to be more successful early on than he should have been in helping him earn as many as three tainted Super Bowl championships.

I know; I know; it's poor form to say stuff like that when you're supposed to be paying tribute to a retiring great of the game like Brady, but I think it still needs to be considered as a major blemish on his NFL resume.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...deo-punishment

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by robw1959

I agree with all of that, but on the flip side there may have been too much film study, if you know what I mean . . . ahem, the spygate scandal. And although Brady was in a key position to benefit from the Cheatriot's knowledge of their opponents signals during games, I put the blame for that scandal squarely on Bill Bellicheat. Still, I believe that scandal enabled Brady to be more successful early on than he should have been in helping him earn as many as three tainted Super Bowl championships.

I know; I know; it's poor form to say stuff like that when you're supposed to be paying tribute to a retiring great of the game like Brady, but I think it still needs to be considered as a major blemish on his NFL resume.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...deo-punishment

If there’s a good reason to take him down a notch, I’m all for it!!!!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by robw1959

I agree with all of that, but on the flip side there may have been too much film study, if you know what I mean . . . ahem, the spygate scandal. And although Brady was in a key position to benefit from the Cheatriot's knowledge of their opponents signals during games, I put the blame for that scandal squarely on Bill Bellicheat. Still, I believe that scandal enabled Brady to be more successful early on than he should have been in helping him earn as many as three tainted Super Bowl championships.

I know; I know; it's poor form to say stuff like that when you're supposed to be paying tribute to a retiring great of the game like Brady, but I think it still needs to be considered as a major blemish on his NFL resume.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...deo-punishment

What sort of team uses signals that can be easily read or learned from videos of practice?
One that really doesn't want to win.
I'm sure there are guys who can sit in the stands and memorize that stuff without a camcorder. And I'm also sure every team employs at least one or two.

Heck, Tony Romo as a broadcaster was saying what plays were before teams ran them just going off where the different players lined up.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by steve B

What sort of team uses signals that can be easily read or learned from videos of practice?
One that really doesn't want to win.
I'm sure there are guys who can sit in the stands and memorize that stuff without a camcorder. And I'm also sure every team employs at least one or two.

Heck, Tony Romo as a broadcaster was saying what plays were before teams ran them just going off where the different players lined up.

But rules are rules for a reason. It's one thing to analyze signals and formations during a game, but quite another to film an opposing team while they are going through their practice time. This is why they were penalized hundreds of thousands of dollars and the loss of draft picks. I, for one, believe it gave them a decided edge during those early 2000s. One year the Colts averaged over 30 points per game, but couldn't even get into the end zone against them. It was like they knew what was coming on every play (because they did). It was actually Peyton Manning who busted the Pats. There was an article interview quoting him in Sporting News (I think) during the 2006 season when he said that he knew they videoed the Colts during their practices up there (at Gillette Stadium). About six months later, the scandal of Spygate was revealed.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by robw1959

But rules are rules for a reason. It's one thing to analyze signals and formations during a game, but quite another to film an opposing team while they are going through their practice time. This is why they were penalized hundreds of thousands of dollars and the loss of draft picks. I, for one, believe it gave them a decided edge during those early 2000s. One year the Colts averaged over 30 points per game, but couldn't even get into the end zone against them. It was like they knew what was coming on every play (because they did). It was actually Peyton Manning who busted the Pats. There was an article interview quoting him in Sporting News (I think) during the 2006 season when he said that he knew they videoed the Colts during their practices up there (at Gillette Stadium). About six months later, the scandal of Spygate was revealed.

The simple solution is to use different signals in practice than you use in the game. Not doing that is in my mind really dumb and just the sort of stupid the Jets seem to like.

Filming the practice or signals isn't against the rules, and wasn't then. It was a matter of where the recording was done from.
All teams film all their games no doubt including signals. That's allowed from some areas. Pre 2006 it was pretty much ok from wherever.
It's not allowed to use that footage in the same game, which everyone admits was not done.

The rule in question.
Article 9.1 (C) (14) of the Constitution and Bylaws of the NFL (p 39 of this pdf): No member shall: "Use at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which a club is a participant, any communications or information gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

How that applies when they have the teams using tablets I can't say. Perhaps it changed when they got the Microsoft sponsorship.

That quoted rule above is from this writeup of it all
https://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by steve B

The simple solution is to use different signals in practice than you use in the game. Not doing that is in my mind really dumb and just the sort of stupid the Jets seem to like.

Filming the practice or signals isn't against the rules, and wasn't then. It was a matter of where the recording was done from.
All teams film all their games no doubt including signals. That's allowed from some areas. Pre 2006 it was pretty much ok from wherever.
It's not allowed to use that footage in the same game, which everyone admits was not done.

The rule in question.
Article 9.1 (C) (14) of the Constitution and Bylaws of the NFL (p 39 of this pdf): No member shall: "Use at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which a club is a participant, any communications or information gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

How that applies when they have the teams using tablets I can't say. Perhaps it changed when they got the Microsoft sponsorship.

That quoted rule above is from this writeup of it all
https://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

So I guess the penalties were indiscriminate and unjust in your opinion? We all have an opinion, but it is what it is - just another reminder that the Patriots would try to win at all costs, regardless of the rules. Belichick tried to apologize for his "misinterpretation" of the rules, but Dungy wasn't having any of it. He publicly criticized Belichick, saying that the rules are so clear that they couldn't be misinterpreted without some intent to break them.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by robw1959

So I guess the penalties were indiscriminate and unjust in your opinion? We all have an opinion, but it is what it is - just another reminder that the Patriots would try to win at all costs, regardless of the rules. Belichick tried to apologize for his "misinterpretation" of the rules, but Dungy wasn't having any of it. He publicly criticized Belichick, saying that the rules are so clear that they couldn't be misinterpreted without some intent to break them.

The penalties were more about disobeying the commissioner than the rule breaking. I'm trying to remember if it was this one or a different thing where the penalty was way beyond what the rules called for. (Or if it was both?)

That website is a fun one by the way. It pretty well covers all the stuff each team has done to try to get an edge that wasn't quite by the book.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Just wondering why he was so good. Wasn’t arm strength, wasn’t mobility, certainly wasn’t top notch receivers for some of his years. My view is he comes down to a brilliant reader of defenses, an uncanny ability to not get nervous in the pocket (eyes in the back of his head to avoid pressure and just enough mobility to slide around it), odd QB sneak smarts, plenty enough arm strength, and darn good accuracy. All combined those things allowed him to put up video game numbers. Eventually he was so good that his and the Pats’ mystique got into the heads of other teams almost as much as his ridiculous ability. Oh, also important is film study and a commitment to doing whatever it takes, including maintaining his body, stemming from pure love of the game and desire to be the best. Thoughts?

Agree, and the same analysis has been used to describe The Great One (Wayne Gretzky.) He wasn't the fastest skater, the biggest, the strongest, he didn't have he hardest shot.......

[egri]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Agree, and the same analysis has been used to describe The Great One (Wayne Gretzky.) He wasn't the fastest skater, the biggest, the strongest, he didn't have he hardest shot.......

To me, what sums that up is the clip from SB 51 of two Falcons on the sideline, and one of them is saying “We’re about to drop 40 on them” and the second one says “we’ve got to.” The first one says “they’ve never seen anything like this” and the response is “It’s Tom Brady though.”

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Agree, and the same analysis has been used to describe The Great One (Wayne Gretzky.) He wasn't the fastest skater, the biggest, the strongest, he didn't have he hardest shot.......

But Gretzky had an uncanny ability to see openings and to read defenses, similar to Brady.