ESPN Top 100

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Betts or Altuve over Trout? No way lol.

No way?

Both have played exactly 11 years so let's compare

Altuve career BA - .308
Trout career BA - .305

Altuve SBs - 261
Trout SBs - 203

Altuve Hits - 1777
Trout Hits - 1419

Altuve HRs - 164
Trout HRs - 310 - but lets not forget Jose is 5' 5" a buck 60 Trout 6' 2" 235

Altuve Walks - 443
Trout Walks - 865 (I like to call this, swing the fucking bat Mike!)

Altuve K's - 753
Trout K's - 1215 (whoops, maybe take the walk Mike)


So again, "no way?" Way. It's a lot closer than you think. And if you bring in the postseason, then I agree with you, "No way", No way I'd take Trout.

Playoff Games
Altuve - 79
Trout - 3

World Series
Altuve - 3
Trout - 0

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

No way?

Both have played exactly 11 years so let's compare

Altuve career BA - .308
Trout career BA - .305

Altuve SBs - 261
Trout SBs - 203

Altuve Hits - 1777
Trout Hits - 1419

Altuve HRs - 164
Trout HRs - 310 - but lets not forget Jose is 5' 5" a buck 60 Trout 6' 2" 235

Altuve Walks - 443
Trout Walks - 865 (I like to call this, swing the fucking bat Mike!)

Altuve K's - 753
Trout K's - 1215 (whoops, maybe take the walk Mike)


So again, "no way?" Way. It's a lot closer than you think. And if you bring in the postseason, then I agree with you, "No way", No way I'd take Trout.

Playoff Games
Altuve - 79
Trout - 3

World Series
Altuve - 3
Trout - 0

So even in your cherry picked stats we are to dismiss home runs and criticize Trout for walking? Let's be reasonable.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by G1911

So even in your cherry picked stats we are to dismiss home runs and criticize Trout for walking? Let's be reasonable.

Cherry picked? These are very common stats HRs BBs K's BA.......sorry I'm not into calculator & formula stats I like the good old fashioned raw numbers.

And I'm not dismissing HR's and Walks, I listed them. Trout has more, just like Altuve has the better BA, more steals, more hits, and less K's. Cherry picking would be to leave them off and just pick every stat that Altuve is better then him at.

And my original comment was I said "I might even take Altuve and Betts over Trout." Go back and read it Poster who's afraid to list their own name.

Like Bob C and others have said these careers need to play out. I'm not the one anointing him the next Jesus Christ.

Maybe if I saw more of him in the playoffs when I watch every pitch I might drool over him like you guys, but he's never there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

WAR. One is 76 and one is 41. Guess?

One has a 181 point lead in OPS. That's right 181. Guess?

One has an MVP. One has 3 plus 4 second places. Guess?

Paul, you're really on a limb of your own making here. I like Altuve, I think he is obviously on track for the Hall, but he's not in the same discussion as Trout.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

WAR. One is 76 and one is 41. Guess?

One has a 181 point lead in OPS. That's right 181. Guess?

One has an MVP. One has 3 plus 4 second places. Guess?

Paul, you're really on a limb of your own making here. I like Altuve, I think he is obviously on track for the Hall, but he's not in the same discussion as Trout.

Coming from a guy who says Brady is not an all time great......that means
..... not a whole lot......thanks though I'm done with this.

Check your own posts in this thread. I'll give ya 3 hours to do that.

Early on you listed all the overrated guys in your view (post #98), yet didn't list Trout, then after I spoke my peace, you moved him down 10 spots to 25 (post #25).

I have him more around 40, but I'm just glad you admit he's overrated.

My work is done here.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Coming from a guy who says Brady is not an all time great......that means
..... not a whole lot......thanks though I'm done with this.

Check your own posts in this thread. I'll give ya 3 hours to do that.

Early on you listed all the overrated guys in your view (post #98), yet didn't list Trout, then after I spoke my peace, you moved him down 10 spots to 25 (post #25).

I have him more around 40, but I'm just glad you admit he's overrated.

My work is done here.

If you think I said Brady is not an all time great you have a reading comprehension problem I am afraid.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Cherry picked? These are very common stats HRs BBs K's BA.......sorry I'm not into calculator & formula stats I like the good old fashioned raw numbers.

And I'm not dismissing HR's and Walks, I listed them. Trout has more, just like Altuve has the better BA, more steals, more hits, and less K's. Cherry picking would be to leave them off and just pick every stat that Altuve is better then him at.

And my original comment was I said "I might even take Altuve and Betts over Trout." Go back and read it Poster who's afraid to list their own name.

Like Bob C and others have said these careers need to play out. I'm not the one anointing him the next Jesus Christ.

Maybe if I saw more of him in the playoffs when I watch every pitch I might drool over him like you guys, but he's never there.

1) Yes. Cherry picked. Let's use slugging, OBP, OPS. My stats are cherry picked too. That's how it works when we selectively choose the ones we like.

2) Yes, you are dismissing walks (the word I actually used in reference to walks was 'criticized'). You did indeed list them, which I did not dispute. You did so with the note of "(I like to call this, swing the fucking bat Mike!)"

3) Yes, I read your original comment. I do not agree with it.

4) I don't see anyone anointing him the next Jesus Christ. I also have said he is way overrated on this list.

5) I'll post yet again that my name has nothing whatsoever to do with claims of fact. An argument holds weight on the logical merit of the argument itself and not by virtue of the authority of the person stating it. An appeal to authority or person is a fallacy. If you'd like to bash my person instead, DM me and I'll give you my email with my name in it.

[Shoeless Moe]

Final Final comment on Mr. 15......what a joke.......I'm not gonna comment on the guy who cherry picked all the stats Trout leads over Altuve, I posted the main categories and was fair for both sides, he picked every one Trout leads, I could do the same for Altuve, but what's the point, or how he comments on a cold streak or 2 for Altuve in the Playoffs (who by the way has a .286 lifetime Postseason average with 23 HRs) yet says "Trout went 1 for 12 in 3 games in the playoffs, it happens".....double standard? white privilege much?.......and Mr No Name who say's I'm the cherry picker, yet doesn't comment on the real cherry picker who I just mentioned, so not going to respond to No Name, grow a pair then we'll talk.

I'll leave y'all with this to contemplate:

Lifetime vs. the Top 100 pitchers:

Mike Trout (#15) vs Clayton Kershaw (#52) - .200 BA (4 for 20)
Mike Trout (#15) vs Justin Verlander (#72) - .125 (5 for 40)
Mike Trout (#15) vs Max Scherzer (#65) - .188 (3 for 16)

total - 12 for 76 = .157 - not quite the Golden Boy..........oh and Williams hit .347 lifetime against Feller in 124 ABs.

...and not that it matters, because we are talking about Trout, but for comparison sake:

Jose Altuve vs Clayton Kershaw - .333 (6 for 18)
Jose Altuve vs Justin Verlander - .563 (9 for 16)
Jose Altuve vs Max Scherzer - .143 (2 for 14)

total - 17 for 48 = .354

No cherry picking there, those are what are called.................FACTS!

"WOOOOOOOOOOO"

[bobbvc]

These lists are always fun, especially in the off season. I personally witnessed Pedro throw a perfect game against the Padres and it was impressive. (He went on to lose the game in the 10th, also impressive by today's standards). But to rank him ahead of Honus Wagner is laughable.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by bobbvc

These lists are always fun, especially in the off season. I personally witnessed Pedro throw a perfect game against the Padres and it was impressive. (He went on to lose the game in the 10th, also impressive by today's standards). But to rank him ahead of Honus Wagner is laughable.

It's a bit harder to compare Pitcher to Hitter, so no comment on Wagner vs Pedro, but no one is convincing me Pedro & Randy Johnson arn't the best pitchers of All time. So I have no complaint with Pedro's position, would like to see Randy right next to him though. Sorry, but you can have your farm hands Walter Johnson, Cy Young & Christy Mathewson.

[guy3050]

Originally Posted by bobbvc

These lists are always fun, especially in the off season. I personally witnessed Pedro throw a perfect game against the Padres and it was impressive. (He went on to lose the game in the 10th, also impressive by today's standards). But to rank him ahead of Honus Wagner is laughable.

Pedro was the winning pitcher Expos won 1-0 in the 10th inning

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

No way?

Both have played exactly 11 years so let's compare

Altuve career BA - .308
Trout career BA - .305

Altuve SBs - 261
Trout SBs - 203

Altuve Hits - 1777
Trout Hits - 1419

Altuve HRs - 164
Trout HRs - 310 - but lets not forget Jose is 5' 5" a buck 60 Trout 6' 2" 235

Altuve Walks - 443
Trout Walks - 865 (I like to call this, swing the fucking bat Mike!)

Altuve K's - 753
Trout K's - 1215 (whoops, maybe take the walk Mike)


So again, "no way?" Way. It's a lot closer than you think. And if you bring in the postseason, then I agree with you, "No way", No way I'd take Trout.

Playoff Games
Altuve - 79
Trout - 3

World Series
Altuve - 3
Trout - 0

Comparing numbers of playoff games and World Series is dumb. Sorry, there's no other way to put it. Trout hasn't had Justin Verlander, Gerritt Cole, and a lineup of MVP candidates around him.

He also hasn't, you know, HAD AN ELECTRONIC CHEATING SYSTEM IN PLACE to boost his playoff performances.

Ignoring that, let's look at other stats:

Runs:
Altuve - 883
Trout - 967

Triples:
Altuve - 29
Trout - 49

OBP:
Altuve - .360
Trout - .419

SLG:
Altuve - .462
Trout - .583

OPS:
Altuve - .821
Trout - 1.002

OPS+:
Altuve - 125
Trout - 176

And one that surprised me a bit:

GiDP (ground into double plays):
Altuve - 158
Trout - 58



I'll take the guy that gets on base A LOT more often with A LOT more power all day, every day. Altuve's small lead in batting average is more than offset by the 100(!) extra outs he created through double plays.

Jose is a great player, albeit one tarnished significantly by the cheating. He's a HOFer, without a doubt. But...he's not close to Trout.