Lots of 1933 Goudey Ruths for sale?

hcv123 · #1 02-17-2022, 09:19 AM

While completely agree no Goudey Ruth card is "rare" by any stretch, there are 1376 PSA graded #144's an additional 584 graded by SGC and likey a bunch more raw ( I would argue it is likely the large majority of these have been graded by now.). Probably also need to reduce the #'s for resubmissions a bit as well. That leaves under 2K examples graded and another ?? 100, 200, 300 raw? If we round up to even say 2500.
The demand for this card is off the charts. It is the "poster child" for baseball card collecting! If you polled just the people attending the national and asked how many would like to one day own this card, I suspect it will quickly surpass 2500. Now add in all the collectors that aren't at the national - 2500 all of a sudden doesn't look like that many cards! The price appreciation that this card has seen goes to support the same conclusion - supply and demand at work - When demand is greater than supply it drives price up - as price rises, it draws more supply into the market place, until there is an equilibrium of a price at which supply=demand.
While the other Goudey Ruth's are in shorter supply, they are no where near as in demand as the #144.
Most collectors who want 1 Ruth card want the Goudey batting pose.

brianclat11 · #2 02-17-2022, 09:59 AM

As someone without the knowledge as most of you, I would like to get some advice on buying one of these. I've been admiring them for a while, but scared off because of price and different variations. Like most others, I'm going to take the plunge eventually, because I think this iconic card is pretty much a must have.

Casey2296 · #3 02-17-2022, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianclat11

As someone without the knowledge as most of you, I would like to get some advice on buying one of these. I've been admiring them for a while, but scared off because of price and different variations. Like most others, I'm going to take the plunge eventually, because I think this iconic card is pretty much a must have.

I would pick the Ruth that appeals to you most and watch the auctions for hammer price and quality vs cost. Eye appeal is more important than grade. Its a great way to educate yourself while saving your pennies up to buy one.

brianclat11 · #4 02-17-2022, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I would pick the Ruth that appeals to you most and watch the auctions for hammer price and quality vs cost. Eye appeal is more important than grade. Its a great way to educate yourself while saving your pennies up to buy one.

Thank you. Very good advice. I keep telling myself that patience is a virtue

.

Casey2296 · #5 02-17-2022, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianclat11

Thank you. Very good advice. I keep telling myself that patience is a virtue

.

Your card will come to you when its ready, don't pull the trigger on one that doesn't meet your standards. I waited two years before I pulled the trigger on mine. The good news is they come up at most every auction so you can be patient.

DeanH3 · #6 02-17-2022, 12:41 PM

I was fortunate enough to acquire both before the big run up. #144 has always been my favorite. Yes, it's the most plentiful of the four. But it's very tough to find with nice qualities. Same goes for the Gehrig. Very tough to find with nice color and registration. Many have a bland look to them. I doubt there will ever be enough supply to satisfy demand for either card.

As for '34 Goudey, I'm more drawn to #61. Interesting to ponder if having no Ruth in the set hurts or helps Gehrig's value. If Ruth was included, I imagine there might be more interest in the set. However, no Ruth means Gehrig is the "key" to the set.

mrreality68 · #7 02-17-2022, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanH3

I was fortunate enough to acquire both before the big run up. #144 has always been my favorite. Yes, it's the most plentiful of the four. But it's very tough to find with nice qualities. Same goes for the Gehrig. Very tough to find with nice color and registration. Many have a bland look to them. I doubt there will ever be enough supply to satisfy demand for either card.

As for '34 Goudey, I'm more drawn to #61. Interesting to ponder if having no Ruth in the set hurts or helps Gehrig's value. If Ruth was included, I imagine there might be more interest in the set. However, no Ruth means Gehrig is the "key" to the set.

WOW and WOW 3 Great Cards and Great Looking Cards

scmavl · #8 02-17-2022, 02:11 PM

I let go of my Goudey Ruths and got a 1932 US Caramel instead. They are just so much more scarce and I have always found the image particularly striking, with his hat cocked to the side.

Jstottlemire1 · #9 02-17-2022, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scmavl

I let go of my Goudey Ruths and got a 1932 US Caramel instead. They are just so much more scarce and I have always found the image particularly striking, with his hat cocked to the side.

I think this was a really great move and add back Goudeys in time.

Exhibitman · #10 02-17-2022, 02:27 PM

Andrew, come on, the 1933 Goudey is by no means a rookie card except for unscrupulous people twisting the definition of rookie card. This is from the PSA master set for Gehrig:

1925 EXHIBITS HENRY L. GEHRIG 10.00
1925-1931 W590 LOU GEHRIG HAND CUT-1ST BASEMAN 3.00
1926 EXHIBITS HENRY L. GEHRIG 1.00
1926 KUT OUTS GIANTS/YANKEES DIE-CUTS LOU GEHRIG 5.00
1926-29 POSTCARD-BACK EXHIBITS LOU GEHRIG BATTING PHOTO 4.00
1926-29 POSTCARD-BACK EXHIBITS LOU GEHRIG BATTING PLAIN 6.00
1926-29 POSTCARD-BACK EXHIBITS LOU GEHRIG PORTRAIT 4.00
1926-1931 EXHIBITS POSTCARD BACK 4-ON-1 GEHRIG/GROVE/DONAHUE/COCHRANE 4.00
1927 EXHIBITS HENRY L. GEHRIG 8.00
1927 W560 LOU GEHRIG 3 OF CLUBS HAND CUT 2.00
1927 W560 HAND CUT LOU GEHRIG 5 OF HEARTS 2.00
1927 YORK CARAMELS TYPE 2 E210 LOU GEHRIG 26 10.00
1928 EXHIBITS LOU GEHRIG 3.00
1928 EXHIBITS LOU GEHRIG POSTCARD BACK 3.00
1928 HARRINGTON'S ICE CREAM LOU GEHRIG 26 8.00
1928 R315 LOU GEHRIG 5.00
1928 SOCIEDADE INDUSTRIAL, ANGOLA SPORTS SERIES BABE RUTH/LOU GEHRIG 100 1.00
1928 SOCIEDADE INDUSTRIAL, ANGOLA SPORTS SERIES BABE RUTH/LOU GEHRIG 116 1.00
1928 SWEETMAN CO. LOU GEHRIG 26 6.00
1928 TABACALERA LA MORENA B.RUTH/L.GEHRIG 116 2.00
1928 THARP'S ICE CREAM LOU GEHRIG 26 5.00
1928 W502 LOU GEHRIG 26 4.00
1928 W502 LOU GEHRIG HAND CUT-BLANK BACK 26 4.00
1928 W565 LOU GEHRIG HAND CUT 1.00
1928 YUENGLING'S ICE CREAM F50 LOU GEHRIG 26 8.00
1929 R316 KASHIN PUBLICATIONS LOU GEHRIG 3.00
1929 R316 5 x 7 PHOTOS LOU GEHRIG 1.50
1929 STAR PLAYER CANDY LOU GEHRIG 32 9.00
1929 W553 LOU GEHRIG HAND CUT 3.00
1929-30 FOUR-ON-ONE EXHIBITS GEHRIG/DUROCHER/KOENIG/RUTH 3.00
1929-1930 ROGERS PEET LOU GEHRIG 28 3.00
1930 BAGUER CHOCOLATE LOU GEHRIG 2.00
1930 CRACKER JACK PINS LOU GEHRIG 1.00
1930 W554 HAND CUT LOU GEHRIG 3.00
1931 W502 LOU GEHRIG HAND CUT 32 4.00
1931 W517 LOU GEHRIG HAND CUT 35 3.00
1931 W517 MINI HAND CUT LOU GEHRIG HAND CUT 4.00
1931-32 FOUR-ON-ONE EXHIBITS GEHRIG/LARY/RUTH/REESE 3.00
1932 U.S. CARAMEL R328 LOU GEHRIG

As for player quality, well, we've kicked that around a lot. Ruth is the GOAT. Tossing aside the years as a pitcher, Ruth amassed 162.7 win share as a position player. Gehrig had 113.7. As for single seasons, Gehrig's best WAR was 1927 11.9. Ruth had three seasons better than that: 1923 14.2, 1921 12.6, and 1927 12.6. Even in his best year, Gehrig was still below Ruth. As for career length, Ruth had 22 seasons BUT Ruth spent his first four years as a pitcher with no more than 67 appearances in his first four years. In his fifth year, 1918, he was basically Ohtani with 95 games played oput of Boston's 126 games that year. Ruth's last year was 28 games: he retired June 2, 1935. So, Ruth had 22 seasons but only 17 that could be considered full seasons as a position player Gehrig had 14 full seasons out of his 17 season career. Ruth is simply the best who ever played the game and card prices reflect it.

As for the assertion that Ruth was a "POS" that doesn't hold water either. Ruth was a party animal and a horn-dog for sure, but by all credible accounts did not have a malicious bone in him. He was decent to fans and kids, for example even when he didn't need to be (he even acknowledged my awe-struck father when he was a kid and saw Ruth on the street in NYC). I'd save POS for crooked players like Hal Chase or Dutch Leonard, racists like Ben Chapman*, or any number of wife-beaters, drug dealers, thieves and pervs (yeah, Trevor Bauer, I'm looking at you).

Don't get me wrong, I love Gehrig. The greatest 1B of all time, a decent human being, and we share a birthday, so I've aways been an admirer.

* "If Chapman disliked Jews, and he did dislike Jews, then he hated "nigras." As the Dodgers-Phillies game began, Chapman's strong, carrying drawl rose from the visiting dugout. "Hey you, there. Snowflake. Yeah, you. You heah me. When did they let you outa the jungle... Hey, we doan need no n*****s here... Hey, black boy. You like white p******g, black boy? You like white p****y? Which one o' the white boys' wives are you f*****g tonight?"

— Roger Kahn, The Era

jingram058 · #11 02-17-2022, 02:59 PM

And that right there is why they retired 42 for every team. So incredibly much more than silly cardboard cards next to how he handled that assenign BS. If I had been Jackie, I would have clubbed Chapman to death, right there on the field. Imagine how that would have affected matters? And that's why Jack Roosevelt Robinson deserves any and all the focus, attention and accolades bestowed upon him. I wish I could have been around to see him play.

egri · #12 02-17-2022, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

...and we share a birthday, so I've aways been an admirer.

Same year?

T205 GB · #13 02-17-2022, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Andrew, come on, the 1933 Goudey is by no means a rookie card except for unscrupulous people twisting the definition of rookie card.

Just like the 33 Ruth and 52 Mantle aren�t true rookies but I wasn�t here to argue with Burdick about what was set as what. I mean the guy literally wrote the book so what�s up with the RC designations. It�s never been a secret but no one cares he played in 26� unless it�s a collector like one of us.

Tell me that Ruth and Gehrig did not have bad blood. We all know that�s bs about Ruth. There�s a reason a man like Gehrig abstained from being associated with him. Great stat info about Ruth but he still played longer. If he was any better they would have played him sooner rather than keeping him a pitcher right? Just don�t think Ruth deserves the attention he gets. Neither do those fools you mentioned in the end of your post.

DeanH3 · #14 02-17-2022, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrreality68

WOW and WOW 3 Great Cards and Great Looking Cards

Thanks Jeff. So glad I "overpaid" for them at the time. The adage "Today's overpay is tomorrows bargain" rings so true.

hcv123 · #15 02-17-2022, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianclat11

As someone without the knowledge as most of you, I would like to get some advice on buying one of these. I've been admiring them for a while, but scared off because of price and different variations. Like most others, I'm going to take the plunge eventually, because I think this iconic card is pretty much a must have.

1) Set your budget
2) Look for the right card - as has been mentioned not all cards at a particular grade are created equal - especially so as you get into the lower grades - I would encourage you to be willing to pay a premium (20-30%) for a strong eye appeal example at a particular grade level.
3) Be sure to do your market price homework and don't just look at the grade, look at the cards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T205 GB

I personally think Gehrig will surpass Ruth in the Goudey set in terms of value. Playing days were numbered and scarcity of playing day cards should be a huge factor in this. Ruth is by far one of the most iconic players but demand is high and prices are absurd. What next best? Gehrig. As this escalates conversations will start taking place about scarcity and value and eventually a massive drive will force Gehrig into the stratosphere. I am super surprised that Gehrig is just now making moves with guys from the 40-60's already skyrocketing and most of the prewar guys already booming. Just look at what Cobb has done over the last few years. Soon we will be saying the Big 8 for T206's.

NEVER will the 33 Gehrig surpass the Ruth. "Babe Ruth" is as close to synonymous with "baseball" as a single player can get! Gehrig was a GREAT player with a tragic end to his career and his life and has strong collector demand for his cards but just nowhere close to Ruth in baseball card collector demand. I would argue that either of the 34 Gehrigs are in higher demand than the 33 (probably not by much though) - To me, either of the 34's visually dwarf the 33's.

hcv123 · #16 02-17-2022, 04:22 PM

Wish I had fought a little harder for this one! I was the underbidder.

https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...rare-blue-back

rjackson44 · #17 02-17-2022, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcv123

Wish I had fought a little harder for this one! I was the underbidder.

https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...rare-blue-back

Hi Howard guess at that price it�s not that rare..

hcv123 · #18 02-17-2022, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjackson44

Hi Howard guess at that price it�s not that rare..

That auction happened in 2009! 13 years ago - that was A LOT of $$$ for a Goudey Ruth - VCP only shows back to 2015 where an authentic #53 sold for $2400, I suspect 6 years earlier it was considerably less. So the blue back selling where it did was a kings ransom relative to the green back.

jingram058 · #19 02-17-2022, 04:29 PM

Just incredible cards in this thread.

I can't help but wonder how rare blank backs and blue backs are?

LincolnVT · #20 02-17-2022, 06:44 PM

Someone was talking about pop and rarity vs demand for these cards. I may be alone on this, but I've always been a believer that there are more raw examples of EVERY known card than there are graded examples...they just may not all be in the hands of collectors. This is what keeps me going...unearthing what has yet to be found.

Smarti5051 · #21 02-17-2022, 06:53 PM

I often wonder about the flip side of the supply. For every undiscovered Goudey Ruth that might find its way to the market, how many Ruth's graded or ungraded get destroyed each decade due to house fires, floods, accidents, inadvertently discarding, etc.? Out of 2000 graded examples, do all 2000 survive a decade in the wild?

T205 GB · #22 02-17-2022, 10:10 AM

I personally think Gehrig will surpass Ruth in the Goudey set in terms of value. Playing days were numbered and scarcity of playing day cards should be a huge factor in this. Ruth is by far one of the most iconic players but demand is high and prices are absurd. What next best? Gehrig. As this escalates conversations will start taking place about scarcity and value and eventually a massive drive will force Gehrig into the stratosphere. I am super surprised that Gehrig is just now making moves with guys from the 40-60's already skyrocketing and most of the prewar guys already booming. Just look at what Cobb has done over the last few years. Soon we will be saying the Big 8 for T206's.

I just really hope this Mike Trout guy pans out because I way over invested in him. Lol

skelly423 · #23 02-17-2022, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Soon we will be saying the Big 8 for T206's.

I was with you right to the end. Can you clarify what you mean by the Big 8? Thanks

T205 GB · #24 02-17-2022, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelly423

I was with you right to the end. Can you clarify what you mean by the Big 8? Thanks

The biggest chase cards in the T206 set. Wagner, Plank, Magie, Doyle NY, ect.

Leon · #25 02-17-2022, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T205 GB

I personally think Gehrig will surpass Ruth in the Goudey set in terms of value. Playing days were numbered and scarcity of playing day cards should be a huge factor in this. Ruth is by far one of the most iconic players but demand is high and prices are absurd. What next best? Gehrig. As this escalates conversations will start taking place about scarcity and value and eventually a massive drive will force Gehrig into the stratosphere. I am super surprised that Gehrig is just now making moves with guys from the 40-60's already skyrocketing and most of the prewar guys already booming. Just look at what Cobb has done over the last few years. Soon we will be saying the Big 8 for T206's.

I just really hope this Mike Trout guy pans out because I way over invested in him. Lol

Gehrig will never overtake Ruth in value. ....and he doesn't look too happy about it!

.

Exhibitman · #26 02-17-2022, 10:49 AM

I agree. And the iconic Gehrig isn't the 1933, it is the 1934 portrait. That's #2 on my want list from the era. From PSA's site:

T205 GB · #27 02-17-2022, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Gehrig will never overtake Ruth in value. ....and he doesn't look too happy about it!

He looks upset because he was on the path to topple Ruth and any record he set but just found out he is sick and has to retire early. To bad Ruth was such a POS and turned on Gehrig out of jealousy. Honestly Gehrig may not surpass Ruth but he is by far a better player and would have set records most would have never been able to touch and at a much faster pace than Ruth was ever capable of. The whole game was altered when Gehrig got sick. Eventually a movie will come out about Gehrig and his playing days. Its going to show Ruth for what he really was. The hobby will ultimately have the final say.

Adam I highly doubt the 34 will be Gehrigs Iconic card. The 33 is his "RC" card and is the first card talked about with Gehrig most times. You ask for a Gehrig card at any dealer table and I would be willing to bet they respond with the 33 Goudey answer of whether they have one or not. Then they respond with secondary cards like the 34. The 34 presents very well but is not anywhere near as appealing as the 33 to me. Then again who knows what buyers with to much money will do to the market. That would be the only reason I could see the 34 passing the 33 Gehrig.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #28 02-18-2022, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcv123

While completely agree no Goudey Ruth card is "rare" by any stretch, there are 1376 PSA graded #144's an additional 584 graded by SGC and likey a bunch more raw ( I would argue it is likely the large majority of these have been graded by now.). Probably also need to reduce the #'s for resubmissions a bit as well. That leaves under 2K examples graded and another ?? 100, 200, 300 raw? If we round up to even say 2500.
The demand for this card is off the charts. It is the "poster child" for baseball card collecting! If you polled just the people attending the national and asked how many would like to one day own this card, I suspect it will quickly surpass 2500. Now add in all the collectors that aren't at the national - 2500 all of a sudden doesn't look like that many cards! The price appreciation that this card has seen goes to support the same conclusion - supply and demand at work - When demand is greater than supply it drives price up - as price rises, it draws more supply into the market place, until there is an equilibrium of a price at which supply=demand.
While the other Goudey Ruth's are in shorter supply, they are no where near as in demand as the #144.
Most collectors who want 1 Ruth card want the Goudey batting pose.

having graded a half dozen raw ones myself in the last year I think you greatly underestimate the raw population. I would guess it's still HIGHER than the graded population.

MattyC · #29 02-18-2022, 01:03 PM

I used to have all four, but found myself really grabbing the #144 first to hold and enjoy, so sold the others and kept it. It does seem that all of them are harder to find in 4 and higher condition, and the image focus issues even plague the higher technical grades. In my collection I went with the 144 and the e121 to represent Ruth; one image pitching for Sox and one batting for Yanks; one black and white, the other color; one later in his career, one earlier. Seemed like a good duo and allows me not to fall down the expensive rabbit hole of any more cards of his LOL.

Casey2296 · #30 02-18-2022, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyC

I used to have all four, but found myself really grabbing the #144 first to hold and enjoy, so sold the others and kept it. It does seem that all of them are harder to find in 4 and higher condition, and the image focus issues even plague the higher technical grades. In my collection I went with the 144 and the e121 to represent Ruth; one image pitching for Sox and one batting for Yanks; one black and white, the other color; one later in his career, one earlier. Seemed like a good duo and allows me not to fall down the expensive rabbit hole of any more cards of his LOL.

Beauty Matt!

jingram058 · #31 02-18-2022, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyC

I used to have all four, but found myself really grabbing the #144 first to hold and enjoy, so sold the others and kept it. It does seem that all of them are harder to find in 4 and higher condition, and the image focus issues even plague the higher technical grades. In my collection I went with the 144 and the e121 to represent Ruth; one image pitching for Sox and one batting for Yanks; one black and white, the other color; one later in his career, one earlier. Seemed like a good duo and allows me not to fall down the expensive rabbit hole of any more cards of his LOL.

Wow, the "eye appeal" colors and image clarity are darned near incredible, Matt. That is one awesome card!

investinrookies · #32 02-18-2022, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyC

I used to have all four, but found myself really grabbing the #144 first to hold and enjoy, so sold the others and kept it. It does seem that all of them are harder to find in 4 and higher condition, and the image focus issues even plague the higher technical grades. In my collection I went with the 144 and the e121 to represent Ruth; one image pitching for Sox and one batting for Yanks; one black and white, the other color; one later in his career, one earlier. Seemed like a good duo and allows me not to fall down the expensive rabbit hole of any more cards of his LOL.

Outstanding 4! As plentiful as the goudey Ruth�s are the ones like that in 4+ grades have all but dried up. Collectors realizing the value of these mid grade examples. Wonder if we see them begin to separate more from the lower grades?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

brianp-beme · #33 02-18-2022, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

having graded a half dozen raw ones myself in the last year I think you greatly underestimate the raw population. I would guess it's still HIGHER than the graded population.

I also think there are still a large percentage of raw cards (maybe not more than graded, but probably at least something close).

There are also Ruth 1933 Goudeys that are likely never to be graded, like this particular iconic two piece batting pose.

Brian

MattyC · #34 02-18-2022, 01:36 PM

One thing to consider is that when a collector is shopping for a Goudey Ruth, if they have decided to buy a graded copy from say PSA or SGC, they are really only going to look at and consider examples from the slabbed population.

In other words, while there is an awareness of there being raw examples out there "in the wild," I doubt that factors into the mind of someone looking to purchase a graded copy. That buyer isn't saying, "Well, they usually go for 'X,' and this one looks better than average, yet I will only pay less than X because of the raw population out there." If one were to lower their paying price for graded examples because of potential future graded examples out there, the most likely outcome is that buyer fails to meet the market price and thus fails to reel one into his collection. As long as the newly graded copies enter market at a pace that can be consumed by the demand, the number of cards that are going from raw to graded are not likely to affect the price at all. And so that raw pop is rather moot in reality.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #35 02-18-2022, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I also think there are still a large percentage of raw cards (maybe not more than graded, but probably at least something close).

There are also Ruth 1933 Goudeys that are likely never to be graded, like this particular iconic two piece batting pose.

Brian

I would like to christen that card the bikini Ruth.

Yoda · #36 02-18-2022, 03:09 PM

I wonder how the 1933 WWG Canadian Goudey Ruth batting has compared in price of late with his American cousin.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
WTB PSA 1 / SGC 10 1933 Goudey Ruths	Danny Smith	1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T	0	06-23-2018 07:58 PM
1933 Goudey Babe Ruths For Sale	ezez420	1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T	0	02-11-2018 06:35 PM
WTB: 1933 Goudey Ruths	T206Collector	1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T	0	06-12-2014 03:49 PM
(2) 1933 Goudey Ruths (#181 & #53)	JeremyW	1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T	0	04-24-2014 08:26 PM
1933 Goudey Ruths?	Archive	1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T	0	09-16-2007 06:00 PM