Ranking of T206 Rarities

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

What about the Blue Old Mills? there's what 2 or three of them?

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

What about the Blue Old Mills? there's what 2 or three of them?

I believe there are 3, identified blue old mills - an Elberfeld portrait, a Walsh, and not sure the 3rd (but there is a third)

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I believe there are 3, identified blue old mills - an Elberfeld portrait, a Walsh, and not sure the 3rd (but there is a third)

The third is the Powell that Ron has.

[Rhotchkiss]

Right!! Thanks

[FrankWakefield]

Sorry Peter, I think you and I don't understand one another's thoughts.
I find no romance in the notion that there's 46 Wagners because there's 46 of them graded, or maybe a few more. About when I encountered Net54 there folks here who thought there were about that many, they weren't aware of 3 I knew of, and there had to be even more on the planet because it seemed unlikely that I knew of the only Wagners that were not graded.

I don't consider those guys out there who have the cards to be true collectors, you may. I think veteran collectors is a better term. But those guys weren't collecting for the money back then. I don't know what the "millions of dollars" has to do with inducing someone who's had a Wagner since the 60's to getting the card graded. And I don't think I'll be able to enlighten or increase your cognitive capacity.

I do feel like you leap on anything I post and then attempt to take a passive/aggressive alternate view. Maybe that can end.





I don't have an avatar, and if I did I wouldn't have an avatar explanation with every post.

My two kids have post graduate degrees, and while they were adept at art, I am not about to panhandle their art skills, nor any other skills, here. If either of them drew anything for someone, they'd give the work to the someone.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Sorry Peter, I think you and I don't understand one another's thoughts.
I find no romance in the notion that there's 46 Wagners because there's 46 of them graded, or maybe a few more. About when I encountered Net54 there folks here who thought there were about that many, they weren't aware of 3 I knew of, and there had to be even more on the planet because it seemed unlikely that I knew of the only Wagners that were not graded.

I don't consider those guys out there who have the cards to be true collectors, you may. I think veteran collectors is a better term. But those guys weren't collecting for the money back then. I don't know what the "millions of dollars" has to do with inducing someone who's had a Wagner since the 60's to getting the card graded. And I don't think I'll be able to enlighten or increase your cognitive capacity.

I do feel like you leap on anything I post and then attempt to take a passive/aggressive alternate view. Maybe that can end.





I don't have an avatar, and if I did I wouldn't have an avatar explanation with every post.

My two kids have post graduate degrees, and while they were adept at art, I am not about to panhandle their art skills, nor any other skills, here. If either of them drew anything for someone, they'd give the work to the someone.

Passive aggressive? Leaping on what you say? Frank I have no idea what you're talking about, this has nothing to do with YOU personally, I just have a different take on this question and I acknowledged you might well be right (although nobody else so far seems to think there could be another 50 Wagners). The only one getting personal here is YOU with that riff on my avatar, not to mention the line about my cognitive capacity..

[t213]

About 20 years ago I sold a group of close to 50 raw T215s (memory serves, roughly 40% type 1s / 60% type 2s). I believe this collector still owns the entire group and is unlikely to sell. Yes, selling this group is my collecting nightmare that haunts me to this day.

[brass_rat]

Hey Andy,

Not to put a picture to your nightmares, but is this the group? I saw this a couple weeks ago when flipping through a 1999 Mastro catalog.

Steve

[G1911]

There were no blue old mills for a century. Now there are 3. It’s hardly the only T card for which this kind of thing has happened (T220 Silver Donovan went from 0 in 2005 to 12 today). There’s still a lot unknown, we see new things come to market all the time. I buy cards/collections every year that have never been seen by collectors before and I’m an unimportant poor collector. There are surely more we haven’t seen.

If I had a Wagner I wouldn’t pay to grade it (what does PSA charge to grade one? They scale with value so it must be many thousands) nor would I post it anywhere. If I had a $3 million card I’d shut the hell up and never tell a soul. I doubt I’m the only one, it’s a small chunk of the hobby that makes their stuff public.

[t213]

That wasn't my T215 group. I sold mine in late 2001 or early 2002. I did have a type 1 Matty white cap, no Cobbs, Johnson or Youngs though. I had many HOF in both types though.

[Hankphenom]

A nifty piece of research would be to list the dates that known Wagners came to be known. If it's been a serious trickle for a while, like one per decade the last few decades, I doubt many more will be coming out, maybe a handful over the next fifty to a hundred years, one or two more in the next five hundred years, and that will be that. And what about ones realistically rumored to be known but never surfaced publicly, is there any accounting of those? I can remember one of the Michalowitz (sp?) brothers--Joe, maybe?--introducing himself to me at a show around D.C. I was set up at sometime in the 90s, and we got to talking about his Wagner, and he said casually, "My brother has two of them." He invited me to come down to Petersburg, Virginia, to see their collections, but I never got around to it. I did verify, though, through serious old-time collector friends, that they were the real deal. I've probably gotten some of the details wrong in my slipping memory, and perhaps the existence and disposition of their cards is well known to the hobby, but it does make me wonder where anecdotal evidence of the existence of Wagners and other uber-rare cards might fit into this discussion.