Hey, pennant guys

Domer05 · #1 04-03-2022, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

Hey pennant guys -

- has anyone seen this leather emblem on an early Chicago Penn Co pennant before? Although not related to Cornell or any sport, I found it to be quite unique and interesting, with the cigarette and dog.

Wondering if there are any other examples of it. It's on a large 34" pennant, c.1915. Could it have been a custom order for a fraternity or social society? I am wondering how this was ordered back then. Maybe the group sent the artwork and then the emblem was created? or Possibly they just asked for a design to be created for them? Curious on any theories.

Thanks!
Joe

Joe, I've never seen this artwork elsewhere on a pennant.

Around the turn of the century wholesale manufacturers would distribute a catalogue, and inside there'd be dozens of different pennant styles and corresponding style numbers. You just told them what school name you wanted the product to read; and, you picked from 3-4 fonts. By the mid-1910s, most makers had a library of sorts containing generic artwork the customer could select from, e.g., football running back, baseball pitcher, lacrosse player. In some cases, these catalogues even included felt color samples the customer could pick from.

By the 1950s, colleges adopted mascots, and pennant makers began offering their customers an even greater library of generic artwork featuring bears, tigers, you name it.

Many makers boasted about their "art departments," and even accepted crude schematics of what you wanted their artist to make. It's possible your artwork was the product of such a request. But, the bull dog kind of looks mascot-like, so I'm wondering if this wasn't just some off the shelf artwork from Chipenco's library someone at Cornell's bookstore thought looked cute?

Note that this artwork was not screen printed, like many of Chipenco's competitors of the day had begun doing. I suspect Chipenco had not yet developed a patent or license to use this new production method by the mid-1910s, when this was made. They weren't alone. To get around this problem, Chipenco had to use burnt leather appliques or else utilize the relief/letterpress method (rubber stamp on white felt) to make detailed university seals or illustrations.

By the way, Joe's website (www.iyellcornell.com) is worth visiting if you haven't yet done so. There's even a section dedicated to (Cornell) pennants!

thetahat · #2 04-04-2022, 05:33 AM

The “burnt leather” logos are super cool, like this one (not mine) which I consider the “holy grail”.

ooo-ribay · #3 04-04-2022, 07:05 AM

Joe said his pennant is �not related to Cornell.�

I�m confused.

vintagesportscollector · #4 04-04-2022, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Joe said his pennant is �not related to Cornell.�

I�m confused.

Sorry Rob, I meant the Emblem of an old man and a dog is not related to Cornell - that is the mystery. Typically I would see a football or baseball player, or other sport, or if after 1915, the Cornell bear mascot. This is so unique and unrelated, hence wondering where it came from.

Huck · #5 04-07-2022, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetahat

The �burnt leather� logos are super cool, like this one (not mine) which I consider the �holy grail�.

That is a nice looking pennant. What year was the pennant produced?

Thank you.

vintagesportscollector · #6 04-04-2022, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer05

Joe, I've never seen this artwork elsewhere on a pennant....

Many makers boasted about their "art departments," and even accepted crude schematics of what you wanted their artist to make. It's possible your artwork was the product of such a request. But, the bull dog kind of looks mascot-like, so I'm wondering if this wasn't just some off the shelf artwork from Chipenco's library someone at Cornell's bookstore thought looked cute?....

Thanks Domer. Extremely helpful information and food for thought. Whether this was off the shelf artwork, or a custom art department creation, is the fun mystery. I have a lot of catalogues and store interior images and photographs of the various local bookstores and shops and retailers, showing what they offered at the time. I have also collected a lot of dorm room photos from the period. I haven't found any examples like this.

I see your point about the bull-dog kind of looking mascot like, and had a similar thought - however, what seems to stand out more is the old hipster looking dude with the blunt.

If it was off the shelf, it seems pretty obscure and seldom requested. Looking through many class books from the time, one can see that Clubs, Societies and various Smoker and social events were a prominent part of campus life. Lots of great student images of smoking and dogs, and various 'stunts'. I am also wondering if this was a one time order for a Society.

Fballguy · #7 04-04-2022, 11:20 AM

If I'm reading this correctly, everyone better get used to "loosely rolled" pennants.

April, 2022 will see a nonstandard fee attributed to parcels that must be sorted manually when packaging exceeds sorting requirements. Packages with a length exceeding 22″ will have a $4.00 surcharge, packages with length exceeding 30″ will have $15.00 surcharge, and packages over 2 cubic feet will have a $15.00 surcharge.

ooo-ribay · #8 04-04-2022, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

If I'm reading this correctly, everyone better get used to "loosely rolled" pennants.

April, 2022 will see a nonstandard fee attributed to parcels that must be sorted manually when packaging exceeds sorting requirements. Packages with a length exceeding 22″ will have a $4.00 surcharge, packages with length exceeding 30″ will have $15.00 surcharge, and packages over 2 cubic feet will have a $15.00 surcharge.

I'm beginning to hate the Post Office. I wasted an hour and a half of my life, last Friday, trying to submit an online claim. Every time I got to "submit" I got a message "Error 413 - Entity too large" I finally gave up and am waiting on a claim form through the mail.

Fballguy · #9 04-04-2022, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I'm beginning to hate the Post Office. I wasted an hour and a half of my life, last Friday, trying to submit an online claim. Every time I got to "submit" I got a message "Error 413 - Entity too large" I finally gave up and am waiting on a claim form through the mail.

The worst and most unprofessional customer service on the planet.

UKCardGuy · #10 04-04-2022, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

If I'm reading this correctly, everyone better get used to "loosely rolled" pennants.

April, 2022 will see a nonstandard fee attributed to parcels that must be sorted manually when packaging exceeds sorting requirements. Packages with a length exceeding 22″ will have a $4.00 surcharge, packages with length exceeding 30″ will have $15.00 surcharge, and packages over 2 cubic feet will have a $15.00 surcharge.

The thread's been quiet for ages and boom in 24 hours it's busier than Time Square.

Love the 49ers pennant Marc. Personally, I think the tassels that you've added make a big difference.

I might be the only one, but I like getting "loosely rolled" pennants. Especially when they're done properly. One auction house that I've used a few times, uses a thick cardboard tube to roll the pennants around and then wraps the rolled pennant(s) in plastic film. It arrives safe and sound every time, is much easier to ship and doesn't get beaten to hell by USPS or Fedex.

perezfan · #11 04-04-2022, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

The thread's been quiet for ages and boom in 24 hours it's busier than Time Square.

Love the 49ers pennant Marc. Personally, I think the tassels that you've added make a big difference.

I might be the only one, but I like getting "loosely rolled" pennants. Especially when they're done properly. One auction house that I've used a few times, uses a thick cardboard tube to roll the pennants around and then wraps the rolled pennant(s) in plastic film. It arrives safe and sound every time, is much easier to ship and doesn't get beaten to hell by USPS or Fedex.

I've warmed up to the rolled pennant packages as well... except when it's rolled too tightly and the painted graphics crack.

There can be problems with flat boxed pennants, too. Most sellers fail to use a plastic sleeve, which presents potential problems...

1. I received one last week with a hole punched all the way through the flat box. Pennant was ruined.
2. Pennant can move inside the box, causing the last 3" of the tip to look like an accordion.
3. Sellers get lax, and let the tip or tassels get caught up in the tape on either end. I've experienced a few lost/destroyed tips and tassels as a result.

So "loosely rolled" is fine with me if they do it the right way.

Fballguy · #12 04-04-2022, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I might be the only one, but I like getting "loosely rolled" pennants. Especially when they're done properly. One auction house that I've used a few times, uses a thick cardboard tube to roll the pennants around and then wraps the rolled pennant(s) in plastic film. It arrives safe and sound every time, is much easier to ship and doesn't get beaten to hell by USPS or Fedex.

Nope not the only one. I'm with you. Boxes are much more likely to sneak through without damage than long flat pieces of cardboard.

Duluth Eskimo · #13 04-07-2022, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

If I'm reading this correctly, everyone better get used to "loosely rolled" pennants.

April, 2022 will see a nonstandard fee attributed to parcels that must be sorted manually when packaging exceeds sorting requirements. Packages with a length exceeding 22″ will have a $4.00 surcharge, packages with length exceeding 30″ will have $15.00 surcharge, and packages over 2 cubic feet will have a $15.00 surcharge.

I just had to deal with this and figured we should brainstorm ideas. Unfortunately I think loosely rolling is the only solution. If anyone has any other suggestions I�m all ears. J

perezfan · #14 04-07-2022, 07:04 PM

I received a pennant just today (from eBay). It was a 29" pennant in a 25" flat box. And yes.... 4" of the tip was sticking out of the box with no protection whatsoever.

Seems like eBay sellers are getting even more clueless (if that's even possible).

Fballguy · #15 04-07-2022, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

I received a pennant just today (from eBay). It was a 29" pennant in a 25" flat box. And yes.... 4" of the tip was sticking out of the box with no protection whatsoever.

Now there's an idea. It's only a matter of time before people start folding pennants...though that wasn't entirely uncommon before this surcharge started.

I imagine free shipping will become obsolete for most pennants...probably quite a few eBay sellers will learn the hard way before adjusting their listings.

Fballguy · #16 04-07-2022, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

I just had to deal with this and figured we should brainstorm ideas. Unfortunately I think loosely rolling is the only solution. If anyone has any other suggestions I�m all ears. J

I got surprised by this on Monday at the post office and bit the bullet on a $39.90 shipping charge (included additional insurance). Yesterday, I was playing around on UPS.com and assuming I used their quote feature correctly, the same package with the same insurance would've been only $23.

Duluth Eskimo · #17 04-07-2022, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I got surprised by this on Monday at the post office and bit the bullet on a $39.90 shipping charge (included additional insurance). Yesterday, I was playing around on UPS.com and assuming I used their quote feature correctly, the same package with the same insurance would've been only $23.

Rob,
I don�t use it, but if you are buying the insurance I�ve heard you�re much better off getting an umbrella policy for sellers through one of the hobby specific insurance companies. USPS is pretty much worthless for insurance. Have you ever received money on a claim?

bocca001 · #18 04-08-2022, 08:37 AM

I received money on a USPS claim for a situation similar to what Mark described, of a flat-shipped pennant that had holes in the packaging and pennant. Clear damage on the pennant matching the holes in the packaging. Because I was the buyer, it was easy to show what I had paid on ebay.

I've heard that the process is much more difficult for the stuff that goes missing. They just keep saying that it is delayed.

Fballguy · #19 04-08-2022, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Rob,
I don�t use it, but if you are buying the insurance I�ve heard you�re much better off getting an umbrella policy for sellers through one of the hobby specific insurance companies. USPS is pretty much worthless for insurance. Have you ever received money on a claim?

Knock on wood...I'm almost afraid to say this because I heard that package I sent on Monday was delivered to the wrong address. Still waiting to hear all is good on it....but I have never had to file a claim with the USPS. Again...Knock on wood.

ooo-ribay · #20 04-08-2022, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

USPS is pretty much worthless for insurance. Have you ever received money on a claim?

On March 29, I spent an hour and a half trying to file an online claim. After many error messages (even after talking to "technical support"), I gave up and talked to someone to get a paper claim form mailed to me. Having not received it for nine days, I called again yesterday. They had a record of my request but, lo and behold, they never sent the form. WTF? Are they trying to run out the clock on me?

Domer05 · #21 04-05-2022, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

I have a lot of catalogues and store interior images and photographs of the various local bookstores and shops and retailers, showing what they offered at the time. I have also collected a lot of dorm room photos from the period.

Joe, if you've got old B/W photos of pennants in action, I think you should post'em

Cornell had to have some of the best pennants ever made in the early 20th century. They were like the Detroit Tigers of the collegiate pennant market!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Are Memorabilia Guys Smarter Than Card Guys?	4scuda	Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used	14	02-13-2014 09:13 AM
Looking to trade my Lefty Tyler BF2 pennant for a BF2 Cubs pennant	milkit1	Pre-WWII cards (E, D, M, etc..) B/S/T	0	01-05-2013 08:21 PM
1913 Northwestern League Pennant Winners Pennant	Archive	Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used	1	03-19-2009 06:55 AM
1920 World Series Pennant for Sale - pennant for Indians v. Dodgers - still available	Archive	Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T	3	11-20-2007 09:54 AM
O/T For Stat Guys Only, I'm sure SABR guys are already looking it up	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	48	07-05-2007 07:31 PM