Baseball Is Dying

[slidekellyslide]

MLB also has the stupid blackout rules which make it impossible for me to get any Kansas City Royals home games even though I paid $139.99 for the MLB package. Luckily I'm not much of a Royals fan, the Red Sox are my team so I get all their games, but to not be able to watch any home games of the team closest to me is insane. There are 81 home games for every team, only retired people who can afford to do so go to every game. It's absolute insanity to block fans from watching their favorite team.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

MLB also has the stupid blackout rules which make it impossible for me to get any Kansas City Royals home games even though I paid $139.99 for the MLB package.

It's not just MLB. The NHL does it, too. I can't see Kraken games on the streaming package until a day or two later because of the blackout rules. I live *300* miles from Seattle. Thankfully, I'm a Detroit fan so it's not really an issue. In prior years, they at least just made the blackout last only until the game was over. As soon as the game ended, I could watch it. Not anymore now that they've moved to an awful setup on ESPN+.

[Casey2296]

Baseball is a cerebral game, it's also a game of accessibility, if our young kids don't have access to playing the sport through little league, pick up games etc. you won't have built a generation of fans, it takes work not money to build baseball fans, the commissioner and networks have no idea how to build a fan base and quite frankly they're too stupid to know how. Inner city baseball? Forget it, there's no room for fields or motivation to build the game there.
It's a sad state of affairs and a poor reflection on our society as a whole.

Oh, and Go Giants!

[npa589]

Baseball is not dying. Look, I'm in my 30s, and I am not going to extrapolate my own interest into widespread interest, but what I do know is that Basketball was "dying" in the 80s and again in the early 2000s. Football was dying from the 60s to the 90s. It's cultural, and society is cyclical with its interests.

When Amazon, Apple, Google, and Meta decide that the best value is promoting baseball - guess what is gonna magically be a part of the interest bubble for young-ins. Yes, baseball.

I will also say that I am in constant amazement at how incompetent the MLB is at running the MLB. It's not as simple to say Manfred or Selig were incompetent and leave it at that. We could elect 10 people on this forum to do a laughably better job at casting and implementing a vision for MLB. They often seem to follow the Gary Bettman playbook for how to run a league.

Let me provide one example of idiocy related to something that should be obvious. Any MLB Extra Innings users out there? Well, for years, No Spoilers would be a setting that was welcomed and useful. Now when you click that as you are watching the game - their "detailed" stream basically lays out what happens. 1. You can see how long each half an inning is. 2. If you dare to click the scoreboard, or I think just scroll down, you'll see if there is a bottom of the ninth or not.

Yet, despite their best efforts, baseball will still survive and in my opinion surpass both basketball and football at some point in the next 20 years. It's just historically been proven over and over that sports go in cycles of popularity.

Lastly - baseball "dying" in the USA is being ignorant to the fact that it's more widely played than American football is internationally. It's not dying.

[doug.goodman]

So what if it's dying, by whatever way of thinking that you care to listen to.

We're in a country of 300+ million, as long as 18 of them are willing to get together for a game, I'll be happy to listen (because I live in LA and my team hates it's fans so watching is nearly impossible).

Doug

[Brian Van Horn]

I listened to or watched 155 Pirates games last year. I attended none. Three strikes and you're out. Yes, I'm aware the latest disruption in the owners/players relationship was a lockout. I am talking previously. There have been strikes by the players and the cheapskate, Bob Nutting, has made my distaste for a game at PNC Park even worse. Finally, the DH in the National League=done listening or watching. No effect on collecting before WWII.

[puckpaul]

Baseball needs a pitching clock and it is coming. The games will be a lot better to watch when faster. Hope that helps, it has really deteriorated the viewing experience for years.

I live in CA now, baseball at the youth level is way bigger than the east coast. Los of kids taking it seriously. Gives me hope!

But i will tell you what needs to die…the NY Times! What a biased joke of a paper masquerading as serious journalism. Stopped reading anything from them years ago.

To me, the NBA is absolutely unwatchable. Just a bunch of selfish players chucking up threes. I watch the NFL and love football, but often i watch it on DVR with the breaks fastforwarded. Takes an hour and a half to watch the 3 1/2 hr telecast.

[SyrNy1960]

They may change up rules and parts of the game here and there. Owners are greedy. I think some players make way too much money to play baseball. Overall, I freakin love baseball and get excited each year for opening day! Nothing will ever change that. Yankee/Red Sox game being canceled bummed me out big time ⚾️

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If baseball is dying someone better quickly call Jeff Bezos, Apple and a bunch of other companies and tell them that their business people are way off the reservation.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Major United States business entities are paying record amounts of money to broadcast games in a dying sport.

Tell me I am wrong. Show me I am wrong.

If no one is watching baseball these companies are really delusional.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

A lot of businesses wish they were dying this hard.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybr...h=6af1accb7f63

It's sort of like people who are invested in there being more crime today than there was 50 years ago. You could show them all the FBI statistics from now till Sunday and they have already decided what the story really is.

That's one of the main problems with most pro sports today it's more about being a business instead of a sport.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Pat R

That's one of the main problems with most pro sports today it's more about being a business instead of a sport.

Baseball was always a cut throat business. Read a book about Jacob Ruppert or Branch Rickey.

I am not pointing a finger at any board member, and people are of course entitled to their views and opinions, but a large part of what's wrong with everything right now is people aren't educated with a historical perspective. If you are a student of baseball (and I hardly consider myself one), you know that the game has been a cut throat in your face business since the 1890s. Leagues crushing leagues through illegal tactics, teams burying other teams and financially destroying them, players moving for more money, management screwing over players, players cheating, etc., etc. Even what the major leagues did in raiding the Negro Leagues for talent was financially despicable.

The one refrain that makes me throw up a little every time I hear it is "things are so different today. What I was growing up players would have been happy to play for free . . . . they just loved the game." Oh please. Yeah, most of them had zero power to force anything. And people like Gehrig and Ruth who had clout held out repeatedly for more money.

I guess as I approach my 60s I need to soon adopt the obligatory old guy "everything is so much worse today than it ever was" mentality. Not there yet. I'd make a joke about maybe I'm watching the wrong TV news network but I'll leave that for another day.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Pat R

That's one of the main problems with most pro sports today it's more about being a business instead of a sport.

I agree. A purpose of the article is to disentangle the sport's profitability from its popularity.

"Casual observers may assume that despite this lack of popularity, baseball is still somehow insanely valuable. This is an illusion. Major League Baseball generated around $11 billion in revenue in 2019, but this figure does not accurately reflect the demand for its product. The astronomical salaries that continue to be enjoyed by the sport’s stars (if that is the mot juste) are a result not of the game’s nonexistent popularity but of the economics of cable television providers, who bundle regional sports networks alongside dozens of other channels so that anyone with cable TV is buying baseball whether he likes it or not.


Because baseball makes much of its money from cable, rather than ticket sales and concessions, etc. it must continue to keep games extremely long, by milking lengthy advertisements. This perpetuates its lack of popularity as most people don't want to sit through a 3 hour plus game, especially in our current ADD/instant gratification society.

If current rates of "cord cutting" continue and cable packages become less of a financial windfall, baseball may need to adjust its business model to thrive.

However, it should be noted that as of 2020, MLB estimated that it still made "40% of revenue comes from tickets, concessions and other gate-related income" according to this Jeff Passan article. As one might suspect, much of that revenue disappeared with the pandemic. So a lot depends on if things bounce back this year at the parks.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

But i will tell you what needs to die…the NY Times! What a biased joke of a paper masquerading as serious journalism.

+1

Proudly,

Ryan Hotchkiss

[Snapolit1]

Worst thing about the NBA is the last 2 minutes of the game is 10 fouls and 20 foul shots and it seemingly takes 15 minutes.

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Baseball needs a pitching clock and it is coming. The games will be a lot better to watch when faster. Hope that helps, it has really deteriorated the viewing experience for years.

I live in CA now, baseball at the youth level is way bigger than the east coast. Los of kids taking it seriously. Gives me hope!

But i will tell you what needs to die…the NY Times! What a biased joke of a paper masquerading as serious journalism. Stopped reading anything from them years ago.

To me, the NBA is absolutely unwatchable. Just a bunch of selfish players chucking up threes. I watch the NFL and love football, but often i watch it on DVR with the breaks fastforwarded. Takes an hour and a half to watch the 3 1/2 hr telecast.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Worst thing about the NBA is the last 2 minutes of the game is 10 fouls and 20 foul shots and it seemingly takes 15 minutes.

The best way to watch any basketball game is the next day. Read the writeup and the box scores. No waiting whatsoever at that point.

Any basketball I watch now is College and only the playoffs. It is just not entertaining to watch any NBA games anymore. At least for me it is not.

Regards,

Butch

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

But i will tell you what needs to die…the NY Times! What a biased joke of a paper masquerading as serious journalism.

Where do you get your non-masquerading serious journalism these days?

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Where do you get your non-masquerading serious journalism these days?

For most people - it is not a single source but multiple sources with multiple opinions which help to form one's personal opinion

However - I do agree that the New York Times is a completely biased journalistic rag....

[egri]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Where do you get your non-masquerading serious journalism these days?

I've found the Wall Street Journal and BBC to be straightforward. The other outlets, I really haven't missed since I cut the cable.

[Yoda]

Just to add my 2 cents, just look how Tiger Wood's unexpected re-emergence in the Masters after his terrible accident has drawn such public interest and rejuvenated interest in golf, which had been suffering declining tv ratings. I cannot envision a similar scenario in baseball.
Also, the decline of minor league ball is a tragedy for the game. Triple A teams especially were really the pipeline for good players develop until they were ready for the Big Show. Although he is a special case, think of Jackie Robinson and Montreal and Mantle with Joplin.

[G1911]

It’s not dying in the sense that it’s going to disappear anytime soon, but I fail to see any reasonable data based argument that baseballs decreasing relevance and popularity is fictional. It is measurably less and less popular as time goes on while other sports increase in popularity. It hasn’t been America’s pastime for half a century now and the gap keeps increasing.

[sreader3]

I was more excited about opening day this year than in many years. And I don’t even really follow a team anymore—just players.

No, baseball is most surely not dying …

“They'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.”

Pete Ward, Tommy Davis and John Ellis passed in the last month. I suspect that those names evoke fond memories in many on this board. Baseball is not dying.

[cammb]

Baseball today sucks. I am a Boys of Summer guy.

[bbcard1]

Baseball is not dying nearly as quickly as the print media.

[dio]

how can it be dying when these teams are paying their players $$$$$$$ this much

[Leon]

Originally Posted by dio

how can it be dying when these teams are paying their players $$$$$$$ this much

Maybe that is a tiny bit of the problem. It's been quite a few years since I have been to a MLB game but it was somewhat expensive back then. I can't imagine it's gotten cheaper, even relatively speaking.
As for me and as I have said before, I quit watching, except for maybe a part of a playoff or series game, after the '94 strike.
.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Leon

Maybe that is a tiny bit of the problem. It's been quite a few years since I have been to a MLB game but it was somewhat expensive back then. I can't imagine it's gotten cheaper, even relatively speaking.
As for me and as said I have said before, I quit watching, except for maybe a part of a playoff or series game, after the '94 strike.
.

Good point. I’m lazy about going to actual games and i imagine the prices are insane but I do love watching the Mets on SNY though. Hard to beat listening to stories from Keith Hernandez. I suspect the revenue from the tv stations is a huge part of team value.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by dio

how can it be dying when these teams are paying their players $$$$$$$ this much

How can it be dying when the cost of buying a team goes up up and up.

[AndrewJerome]

Maniac_73 do you have similar charts for NBA, NFL, NHL?

Not sure what the answer is for shortening games. But I’m also not sure why a 3 hour game is terrible and too long but something like 2 1/2 hours is perfect and would fix everything. Is the extra half hour really a deal breaker? Personally, when I pay to go to a game I prefer it to be 3 hours. Gives me more time to relax etc. I guess I’m getting old

[maniac_73]

This chart gives a pretty good explanation of why baseball is dying. I say this after trying to slub through a jays game that after 2 hours was in the 4th inning yesterday. I grew up with baseball and I love baseball. If Im having trouble sitting through a 4 hour game what chance does a kid who's been conditioned to not have an attention span and has a million other choices for entertainment?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

If you don't allow Clayton Kershaw to try and finish what was on pace to be possibly the greatest game ever pitched with only 80 pitches thrown through 7 innings, maybe baseball deserves to die...

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If you don't allow Clayton Kershaw to try and finish what was on pace to be possibly the greatest game ever pitched with only 80 pitches thrown through 7 innings, maybe baseball deserves to die...

I started a thread on the water cooler side about this. I couldn't agree more.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If you don't allow Clayton Kershaw to try and finish what was on pace to be possibly the greatest game ever pitched with only 80 pitches thrown through 7 innings, maybe baseball deserves to die...

I agree 100% with this!

Steve

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If you don't allow Clayton Kershaw to try and finish what was on pace to be possibly the greatest game ever pitched with only 80 pitches thrown through 7 innings, maybe baseball deserves to die...

I couldn't agree more. He had 13 strikeouts! I am not generally pessimistic about the future of the game, but it is truly a sad day for baseball.

[Steve D]

I Completely agree.

The reason I have always loved watching pitchers like Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, Clayton Kershaw.......... is that every time they took the mound, they had a chance to make History!; to elevate that particular game to immortality, instead of it being just another game to slog through.

Managers/Bean Counters have taken excitement, the chance to see something truly special, away from everyone; They've made every game basically the same; unmemorable; just another boring page in the book of a season.

Steve

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If you don't allow Clayton Kershaw to try and finish what was on pace to be possibly the greatest game ever pitched with only 80 pitches thrown through 7 innings, maybe baseball deserves to die...

Originally Posted by Steve D

I Completely agree.

The reason I have always loved watching pitchers like Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, Clayton Kershaw.......... is that every time they took the mound, they had a chance to make History!; to elevate that particular game to immortality, instead of it being just another game to slog through.

Managers/Bean Counters have taken excitement, the chance to see something truly special, away from everyone; They've made every game basically the same; unmemorable; just another boring page in the book of a season.

Steve

Three times in Justin Verlander's last six starts, Dusty Baker pulled him with no-hitters in progress:

- Aug 23 - 6 innings, 91 pitches, 10 Ks, 0 walks. Only baserunner he allowed was on a 3rd strike-passed ball.

- Sep 16 - 5 innings, 79 pitches, 9 Ks, 1 walk.

- Oct 4 - 5 innings, 77 pitches, 10 Ks. Only baserunner allowed was on a walk leading off the 5th inning.

Also on Sep 19th, Buck Showalter pulled Max Scherzer after six innings, having thrown only 68 pitches. He had 9 K's, and was pitching a PERFECT GAME!!!!!

Steve

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Steve D

Also on Sep 19th, Buck Showalter pulled Max Scherzer after six innings, having thrown only 68 pitches. He had 9 K's, and was pitching a PERFECT GAME!!!!!

He was also making his first start in 16 days, coming back from an injury.

[jamest206]

I will go to a game at Coors Field every day of the week vs an NBA game. The disgrace of a “National Anthem” on tv during Covid, explaining to my wife (who was a veteran as a Marine AND Army, Kosovo conflict) that we will never watch this, and the audacity of doing something like that with no in person crowd.

Met my wife three years ago. Took her to opening weekend of Rockies/Dodgers and she fell in love. Going to a game vs watching on television are two different animals. She loved being at the game, and I made sure we sat 10 rows back, dead center behind home plate. They also honor the veterans during the game. Sure, the cost is up there, but not nearly as close as sitting at the top of Mile High in January for a meaningless game. I can go on and on about how television can make something look so different in person vs football. QB’s so inaccurate, the standards are different.

Everything is dying, they say. Baseball changes with the time, and we are coming out of two years with Covid, and the cost of everything going up sky high once things opened up this year. I worked in printing during my 20’s, and that industry on big Heidelbergs is dead, along with skewed newspapers, gas powered cars (they say), and so on.

Sure, the current commissioner is a hypocrite, and not well liked. I expect the game to look a little different next year, but not too much. I recommend watching Ken Burns original Baseball documentary from time to time. It never gets old, and is a friendly reminder of the way things were, are, and will be.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by Tabe

It's not just MLB. The NHL does it, too. I can't see Kraken games on the streaming package until a day or two later because of the blackout rules. I live *300* miles from Seattle. Thankfully, I'm a Detroit fan so it's not really an issue. In prior years, they at least just made the blackout last only until the game was over. As soon as the game ended, I could watch it. Not anymore now that they've moved to an awful setup on ESPN+.

Two separate comments regarding this. First, try living in Oklahoma City. I have to deal with the blackout rules for the Royals, Cardinals, Rangers, and Astros. As a Yankees/Guardians fans, that is a lot of games I can't watch. Particularly because, as Rich points out, those of us who have cut the cord and only stream can't get the local sports network. Second, the NBA also enforces local blackouts, but the difference is that you can get around it with a VPN. I tried last year with MLB TV and I wasn't able to use that way to get around local blackout rules.

[D. Bergin]

In this day and age, when most revenue actually comes from broadcast rights, blackout rules are absolutely idiotic.

Anybody who wants to spend $500+ to bring their family out to a game, isn't going to stay in and watch it on TV instead.

It seems self-defeating and whittles away at your future fan base.

[Mountaineer1999]

Baseball may not be dying, but it sure isn't the same as it used to be. Ive mostly attributed this to me getting older but my 20 year old boys find it boring so Im not so sure. When I was growing up in the hills of Appalachia in the 1970s, baseball was magical an escape from the day to day. Most here are talking about not being able to see the games. In the 1970s that was the allure. We saw two games a week, Saturday NBC game of the week and Monday night baseball, I spent all my time trying to get KDKA radio to come in in Southern WV to hear the Pirates games. Those are memories i cherish now. Baseball has lost its mystique, its romanticism because it's everywhere. Or maybe I've just gotten old.

[Mountaineer1999]

Also, if you're a T-Mobile customer. The MLBTv package is free every year.

[Snapolit1]

Views of average Net 54er:

Baseball today sucks.

Movies today suck.

Music today sucks.

TV today sucks.


Mmmm. Sensing a theme here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhTuYKR-ejo

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Views of average Net 54er:

Baseball today sucks.

Movies today suck.

Music today sucks.

TV today sucks.


Mmmm. Sensing a theme here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhTuYKR-ejo

Nah…TV is awesome today! Streaming is great.

[frankbmd]

[QUOTE=Snapolit1;2213455]Views of average Net 54er:

Baseball today sucks.

Movies today suck.

Music today sucks.

TV today sucks.

Dale Carnegie sucks.


Mmmm. Sensing a theme here.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

Baseball may not be dying, but it sure isn't the same as it used to be. Ive mostly attributed this to me getting older but my 20 year old boys find it boring so Im not so sure. When I was growing up in the hills of Appalachia in the 1970s, baseball was magical an escape from the day to day. Most here are talking about not being able to see the games. In the 1970s that was the allure. We saw two games a week, Saturday NBC game of the week and Monday night baseball, I spent all my time trying to get KDKA radio to come in in Southern WV to hear the Pirates games. Those are memories i cherish now. Baseball has lost its mystique, its romanticism because it's everywhere. Or maybe I've just gotten old.

My 20 year old sons find everything I've ever done in my life boring. Their idea of watching a movie is having it on the big screen, while they post on Redditt about what they are watching, while the text their friends about completely unrelated things, while they occasionally glance down at their college homework. And somehow they seem to understand more about the movie than I do.

[Snapolit1]

Over 10 billion minutes of MLB baseball watched last year on cell phones.

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/...egular-season/

That's a lot of eyeballs for something no one cares about anymore.

[Orioles1954]

Speaking for myself only, the season is too long when 40% of the teams make the playoffs. We’re starting to see load management in the MLB and the World Series should never be played around Halloween. Baseball is the ultimate league of the haves and have nots. A cap/floor should have been instituted although a balanced schedule for 2023 is an imperfect step forward.