Baseball Is Dying

Pat R · #1 04-08-2022, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If baseball is dying someone better quickly call Jeff Bezos, Apple and a bunch of other companies and tell them that their business people are way off the reservation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Major United States business entities are paying record amounts of money to broadcast games in a dying sport.

Tell me I am wrong. Show me I am wrong.

If no one is watching baseball these companies are really delusional.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

A lot of businesses wish they were dying this hard.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybr...h=6af1accb7f63

It's sort of like people who are invested in there being more crime today than there was 50 years ago. You could show them all the FBI statistics from now till Sunday and they have already decided what the story really is.

That's one of the main problems with most pro sports today it's more about being a business instead of a sport.

Snapolit1 · #2 04-08-2022, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

That's one of the main problems with most pro sports today it's more about being a business instead of a sport.

Baseball was always a cut throat business. Read a book about Jacob Ruppert or Branch Rickey.

I am not pointing a finger at any board member, and people are of course entitled to their views and opinions, but a large part of what's wrong with everything right now is people aren't educated with a historical perspective. If you are a student of baseball (and I hardly consider myself one), you know that the game has been a cut throat in your face business since the 1890s. Leagues crushing leagues through illegal tactics, teams burying other teams and financially destroying them, players moving for more money, management screwing over players, players cheating, etc., etc. Even what the major leagues did in raiding the Negro Leagues for talent was financially despicable.

The one refrain that makes me throw up a little every time I hear it is "things are so different today. What I was growing up players would have been happy to play for free . . . . they just loved the game." Oh please. Yeah, most of them had zero power to force anything. And people like Gehrig and Ruth who had clout held out repeatedly for more money.

I guess as I approach my 60s I need to soon adopt the obligatory old guy "everything is so much worse today than it ever was" mentality. Not there yet. I'd make a joke about maybe I'm watching the wrong TV news network but I'll leave that for another day.

Pat R · #3 04-08-2022, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Baseball was always a cut throat business. Read a book about Jacob Ruppert or Branch Rickey.

I am not pointing a finger at any board member, and people are of course entitled to their views and opinions, but a large part of what's wrong with everything right now is people aren't educated with a historical perspective. If you are a student of baseball (and I hardly consider myself one), you know that the game has been a cut throat in your face business since the 1890s. Leagues crushing leagues through illegal tactics, teams burying other teams and financially destroying them, players moving for more money, management screwing over players, players cheating, etc., etc. Even what the major leagues did in raiding the Negro Leagues for talent was financially despicable.

The one refrain that makes me throw up a little every time I hear it is "things are so different today. What I was growing up players would have been happy to play for free . . . . they just loved the game." Oh please. Yeah, most of them had zero power to force anything. And people like Gehrig and Ruth who had clout held out repeatedly for more money.

I guess as I approach my 60s I need to soon adopt the obligatory old guy "everything is so much worse today than it ever was" mentality. Not there yet. I'd make a joke about maybe I'm watching the wrong TV news network but I'll leave that for another day.

It's just my opinion Steve but I'm sure that I am not the only one who feels this way. From the early 70's until the middle of 1994 if there was a baseball game on T.V. and I was home I was watching it, since that time I've watched John Smoltz play more rounds of golf than I've watched baseball games.

Same thing with Boxing I used to be a huge boxing fan until PPV ruined the sport.

My wife and I used to go to both Nascar weekends in Dover Delaware but gradually they kept raising the hotel prices until a $125 hotel room was $500-$600 a night. I actually called the chamber of commerce and complained that they were chasing the real fans away. She told me that it was because there wasn't enough rooms to support the amount of people.
She didn't have an answer when I pointed out that when we first started going there were just as many people 150,000-200,000 and that it was before all the drivers and teams had there own motor homes and used to stay in the hotels and also before several new large hotels were built next to the track. When we went we used to meet up with several friends from our area who stayed at a campsite right across from the track, many had been staying there for over 20 years. The track bought the campsite and made everyone purchase at least two tickets for all the races Friday, Saturday and Sunday in order to reserve a spot.

I don't think it was more than 5 years after I had the conversation with the woman from the chamber of commerce that attendance at the Dover race had dropped to about 20,000-25,000 at most for the cup race on Sunday.

cgjackson222 · #4 04-08-2022, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

That's one of the main problems with most pro sports today it's more about being a business instead of a sport.

I agree. A purpose of the article is to disentangle the sport's profitability from its popularity.

"Casual observers may assume that despite this lack of popularity, baseball is still somehow insanely valuable. This is an illusion. Major League Baseball generated around $11 billion in revenue in 2019, but this figure does not accurately reflect the demand for its product. The astronomical salaries that continue to be enjoyed by the sport’s stars (if that is the mot juste) are a result not of the game’s nonexistent popularity but of the economics of cable television providers, who bundle regional sports networks alongside dozens of other channels so that anyone with cable TV is buying baseball whether he likes it or not.

Because baseball makes much of its money from cable, rather than ticket sales and concessions, etc. it must continue to keep games extremely long, by milking lengthy advertisements. This perpetuates its lack of popularity as most people don't want to sit through a 3 hour plus game, especially in our current ADD/instant gratification society.

If current rates of "cord cutting" continue and cable packages become less of a financial windfall, baseball may need to adjust its business model to thrive.

However, it should be noted that as of 2020, MLB estimated that it still made "40% of revenue comes from tickets, concessions and other gate-related income" according to this Jeff Passan article. As one might suspect, much of that revenue disappeared with the pandemic. So a lot depends on if things bounce back this year at the parks.

egri · #5 04-08-2022, 10:38 AM

I've observed in my age group (mid to late 20's) there isn't a whole lot of interest in baseball anymore. Out of about two dozen people in my office, me and another guy, who was from Atlanta, were the only ones who watched the World Series. I also don't buy the argument that the game is fine because Besos et al are pouring money into it. The history of the game is littered with businessmen who were successful in other endeavors but flopped when they tried to run a baseball team. Boxing used to be huge too, but I don't think I could name a more recent boxer than George Foreman, and only because of his grills. The Simpsons joked that baseball was as much fun as doing taxes, but at least when I got done with those I got a check!

D. Bergin · #6 04-08-2022, 11:59 AM

Most of the recent rules changes (and extended commercial breaks) I hate, but being forced to watch another $20 million pitcher creating a hole in the lineup and weakly wave at a fastball or muffing another bunt, or hurting himself on the base paths is not something I will ever miss in the slightest.

This is the stat line for pitchers in 2021: .103 BA, .135 on-base percentage, .141 slugging percentage and 48.0 strikeout percentage. Successful sacrifice percentage 7.1%.

If you somehow have an Ohtani and you want to voluntarily put him in the lineup, fine....but otherwise, I can't wrap my head around the idea that so many people embraced this absolutely self-defeating practice for so long.

Flame away!

BobbyStrawberry · #7 04-08-2022, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Most of the recent rules changes (and extended commercial breaks) I hate, but being forced to watch another $20 million pitcher creating a hole in the lineup and weakly wave at a fastball or muffing another bunt, or hurting himself on the base paths is not something I will ever miss in the slightest.

This is the stat line for pitchers in 2021: .103 BA, .135 on-base percentage, .141 slugging percentage and 48.0 strikeout percentage. Successful sacrifice percentage 7.1%.

If you somehow have an Ohtani and you want to voluntarily put him in the lineup, fine....but otherwise, I can't wrap my head around the idea that so many people embraced this absolutely self-defeating practive for so long.

Flame away!

Totally fair point, although I will miss watching the pitchers that could actually hit a little bit, like deGrom and Greinke.

Rhotchkiss · #8 04-08-2022, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Totally fair point, although I will miss watching the pitchers that could actually hit a little bit, like deGrom and Greinke.

How about pitchers who went 9 innings, let alone 6+??? I remember marveling at Nolan Ryan and Mike Scott (I am not an Astros fan), who would pitch 9 innings, strike out a ton of batters, and then come back and do it all over a few days later. Middle relievers and pitch counts are two things that have killed the sport for me.

BobbyStrawberry · #9 04-08-2022, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

How about pitchers who went 9 innings, let alone 6+??? I remember marveling at Nolan Ryan and Mike Scott (I am not an Astros fan), who would pitch 9 innings, strike out a ton of batters, and then come back and do it all over a few days later. Middle relievers and pitch counts are two things that have killed the sport for me.

Absolutely, I agree. Let starters go deeper into games!

Remember 2020 WS game 6? Tampa pulled Blake Snell after 5 1/3 shutout innings and 73 pitches...of course the next guy in blew the game.

Scocs · #10 04-08-2022, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

How about pitchers who went 9 innings, let alone 6+??? I remember marveling at Nolan Ryan and Mike Scott (I am not an Astros fan), who would pitch 9 innings, strike out a ton of batters, and then come back and do it all over a few days later. Middle relievers and pitch counts are two things that have killed the sport for me.

Facts.

D. Bergin · #11 04-08-2022, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

How about pitchers who went 9 innings, let alone 6+??? I remember marveling at Nolan Ryan and Mike Scott (I am not an Astros fan), who would pitch 9 innings, strike out a ton of batters, and then come back and do it all over a few days later. Middle relievers and pitch counts are two things that have killed the sport for me.

I get your point, but I also remember Mark Fidrych being completely worthless by his age 22 season, after throwing nearly as many complete games in his Rookie season as Justin Verlander has had in his entire career.

I really don't care much about pitch counts, but pace of games has gotten ridiculous. They can try to figure out a way to quicken pitching changes or limit roster spots for pitchers so they have to try to pitch smarter and not harder, but the biggest issue will always be selling commercial space so television networks can justify paying as much as the do for the prestige of having a major sports league under contract...and it's faaaaaar worse during the playoffs.

I attend plenty of minor league games...and the pace of play in those leagues is, shall I say, still pretty brisk.

Sometimes I get annoyed I haven't even had the time to enjoy a 2nd beer before the 7th inning comes around and concessions start to close down.

D. Bergin · #12 04-08-2022, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Totally fair point, although I will miss watching the pitchers that could actually hit a little bit, like deGrom and Greinke.

Well teams still can insert their pitchers into the lineup if they think it's to their advantage...but even modern pitchers who are considered competent at the plate may have a season here and there where they exceed expectations (think Degrom, Syndegaard, Grienke), but if you look at their lifetime totals, even those guys are pretty abysmal, so unlikely you'll see very many pitcher at bats from anybody outside of another Ohtani level talent from this point on.

Eric72 · #13 04-08-2022, 06:33 PM

I enjoyed the strategy which tended to accompany having pitchers in the batting lineup.

The sentiment above was expressed with brevity, out of respect to those for whom anything more than highlights would be too long and involved.

earlywynnfan · #14 04-08-2022, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d. Bergin

most of the recent rules changes (and extended commercial breaks) i hate, but being forced to watch another $20 million pitcher creating a hole in the lineup and weakly wave at a fastball or muffing another bunt, or hurting himself on the base paths is not something i will ever miss in the slightest.

This is the stat line for pitchers in 2021: .103 ba, .135 on-base percentage, .141 slugging percentage and 48.0 strikeout percentage. Successful sacrifice percentage 7.1%.

If you somehow have an ohtani and you want to voluntarily put him in the lineup, fine....but otherwise, i can't wrap my head around the idea that so many people embraced this absolutely self-defeating practice for so long.

Flame away!

+100

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Sports documentaries you're dying to own	the 'stache	Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk	8	03-27-2014 02:24 AM
! DYING to buy a BF2 schulte and Lavender	milkit1	Pre-WWII cards (E, D, M, etc..) B/S/T	1	10-25-2013 04:29 PM
Bowls out - thank goodness the BCS is dying	Runscott	Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk	6	12-05-2012 08:17 PM
Finally got the card I have been dying to get!	SethY	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	15	12-25-2009 02:24 AM
Baseball Dying Out?	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	5	12-03-2004 02:56 PM