The Willie Mays price boom

[Exhibitman]

The 'problem' with Frank Robinson is that he has to compete with Mays, Aaron and Musial int he same league at the same time. He was really great (#17 WAR) but all three of them were even greater. Being in the top 5 on leader cards isn't really the same as being the big headshot guy. Plop him into the AL for the first several years of his career and he might be regarded more highly.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The 'problem' with Frank Robinson is that he has to compete with Mays, Aaron and Musial int he same league at the same time. He was really great (#17 WAR) but all three of them were even greater. Being in the top 5 on leader cards isn't really the same as being the big headshot guy. Plop him into the AL for the first several years of his career and he might be regarded more highly.

I could see people recognizing him more eventually though. First black manager, still the only man to win the MVP in both leagues. I would agree he's not better than Mays, Aaron, or Musial - but at the same time he's definitely not given his due.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I could see people recognizing him more eventually though. First black manager, still the only man to win the MVP in both leagues. I would agree he's not better than Mays, Aaron, or Musial - but at the same time he's definitely not given his due.

Frank Robinson is definitely undervalued.

Certainly being 5th fiddle behind Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Musial has something to do with it. And despite being a better right fielder statistically than Clemente (overall, but definitely not fielding), he also doesn't hold a candle to him either, from a popularity/value standpoint.

But for me, the reason I don't collect his cards is because he just doesn't have the nicest looking cards. I had one of his rookies graded, it came back a 6.5, but it did nothing for me and I sold it.

I own his '62 Topps, and there are a couple others I like, but I think his joining the League after what some to believe is the Goldin Age of baseball cards (early to mid-50s) has a little something to do with it.

Its crazy to think that a guy who won the Triple Crown and was the only player to win MVP in both leagues wasn't flashy enough, but that may be the case.

Maybe one day that will change, but I am not holding my breath.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

And despite being a better right fielder statistically than Clemente (overall, but definitely not fielding), he also doesn't hold a candle to him either, from a popularity/value standpoint.

Wasn't always that way. When I was a kid in the late 80's - yeah, Clemente was popular and recognized as a HOF'er, but I don't think anyone thought he was better than say a Musial, and certainly from a popularity standpoint, he was behind Mantle, Mays, and Aaron. Again depending on perspective I could be wrong but I don't recall 80's Clemente having the popularity twist from also being Latino, and a humanitarian - that he seems to have now in the 21st century. I've just always thought he was a badass.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Wasn't always that way. When I was a kid in the late 80's - yeah, Clemente was popular and recognized as a HOF'er, but I don't think anyone thought he was better than say a Musial, and certainly from a popularity standpoint, he was behind Mantle, Mays, and Aaron. Again depending on perspective I could be wrong but I don't recall 80's Clemente having the popularity twist from also being Latino, and a humanitarian - that he seems to have now in the 21st century. I've just always thought he was a badass.

I don't know if people recognize Clemente as better than Musial. And I still think he may be less popular than Mantle, Mays and Aaron. But I think he is right behind them in popularity (maybe tied or ahead of Aaron?).

I believe the humanitarian award named for him was created shortly after his passing. I was born in 1980, and Clemente's always been my favorite player, and a lot of that has to do with his humanitarianism.

But I see your point that he has had a surge in popularity related to the growing Latino population in this country and the continued popularity of baseball in Latin America.

I also think that during Clemente's career, he had limited recognition until he won the MPV in '66 more than a decade into his career, and then it took off with the World Series MPV in 1971, late in his career. He started off pretty quietly statistically, and didn't make an All Star team until his 6th year.
http://www.espn.com/sportscentury/fe.../00014137.html

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I don't know if people recognize Clemente as better than Musial. And I still think he may be less popular than Mantle, Mays and Aaron. But I think he is right behind them in popularity (maybe tied or head of Aaron?).

I believe the humanitarian award named for him was created shortly after his passing. I was born in 1980, and Clemente's always been my favorite player, and a lot of that had to do with his humanitarianism.

But I see your point that he has had a surge in popularity related to the growing Latino population in this country and the continued popularity of baseball in Latin America.

I also think that during Clemente's career, he had limited recognition until he won the MPV in '66 more than a decade into his career, and then it took off with the World Series MPV in 1971, late in his career. He started off pretty quietly statistically, and didn't make an All Star team until his 6th year. http://www.espn.com/sportscentury/fe.../00014137.html

Yeah, not saying he was better than Musial - just saying that on-field greatness and how that translates to a hobby and popularity can sometimes be odd. True that he wasn't recognized nearly as he should have been during his career. There were also the 4 batting titles which seems to me were treated somewhat quietly. I was born in '77, but it wasn't until the last 15 years that I really began to think of Clemente differently in terms of his humanitarian efforts.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

I don't know if people recognize Clemente as better than Musial. And I still think he may be less popular than Mantle, Mays and Aaron. But I think he is right behind them in popularity (maybe tied or ahead of Aaron?).

I believe the humanitarian award named for him was created shortly after his passing. I was born in 1980, and Clemente's always been my favorite player, and a lot of that has to do with his humanitarianism.

But I see your point that he has had a surge in popularity related to the growing Latino population in this country and the continued popularity of baseball in Latin America.

I also think that during Clemente's career, he had limited recognition until he won the MPV in '66 more than a decade into his career, and then it took off with the World Series MPV in 1971, late in his career. He started off pretty quietly statistically, and didn't make an All Star team until his 6th year.
http://www.espn.com/sportscentury/fe.../00014137.html

No not even close. Clemente's 63T PSA 8 is at $1000. Mays is $1900, Aaron is $2000.

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[Bigdaddy]

How many Frank Robinson fans do you know?

That's why his cards will always be undervalued based on his stats.