That new PSA/eBay deal

Rhotchkiss · #1 05-10-2022, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobC

How difficult would it be for someone to counterfeit such a sticker?

Juice ain�t worth the squeeze considering the slab is already real or fake. The only person who would counterfeit the sticker is someone who has already counterfeited the underlying slab.

BobC · #2 05-10-2022, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Juice ain�t worth the squeeze considering the slab is already real or fake. The only person who would counterfeit the sticker is someone who has already counterfeited the underlying slab.

I was thinking more in terms of someone selling something on Ebay. I would assume that if you had to send a slabbed card to PSA for authentication per Ebay rules, even if it is a PSA graded card, that once PSA gave it the thumbs up per Ebay rules, a subsequent resale of the exact same item on Ebay wouldn't then require still another trip back to PSA to authenticate it once again. Some type of a sticker would hopefully make such an additional endeavor needless, or so one would think. But of course, that would make too much logical sense, which none of this appears to be, making logical sense that is.

The entire idea and concept behind third party grading and encapsulation to begin with was to ease remote/internet online buyer's minds when purchasing cards they couldn't first examine in person to determine authenticity or true condition. This new Ebay requirement is tacit accusation of the various TPG's that they can't competently authenticate cards, nor have created slabs that are effectively able to deter tampering and/or easily display that they have been tampered with. In other words, Ebay is effectively saying the TPGs are unable to safeguard and prove their graded cards are what they say they are. And to make matters even more ludicrous, Ebay has elected the same TPGs that they have apparently have no faith in (PSA for now) to be the ones to re-examine these graded cards being sold on Ebay. So some PSA graded cards are going to be sent back to PSA to confirm that they were originally correct in their assessment of them and haven't been tampered with.

It would not behoove PSA to find that a lot of their previously graded items were wrongly authenticated, or that their slabs were easily compromised/faked. Doing so would seem to indicate that they couldn't do something right the first time, and only help to indicate their errors/inadequacies. And simply agreeing that what they did originally was okay doesn't help them at all. They did what they were supposed to do, and were paid handsomely to do! For them it can only be a losing situation, and potentially serve to undermine people's faith in them; and potentially other TPGs as well. So that immediately puts a conflict of interest/bias in anything they do for Ebay regarding items they re-examine that were previously graded by them. And with the history of how TPGs seem to have historically looked at re-grading crossovers from other TPG's graded cards, what is to give people any assurance that PSA personnel may not view items submitted to them under this Ebay sponsored program that were originally graded by other TPGs with an inherent bias as well? The more they claim that other TPG graded slabs, and by extension the encapsulated cards in them, are not authentic, the worse they look in comparison to PSA. So, there is obviously no potential conflict of interest existing, now is there?

I can understand possibly trying to fight fraud and such on cards being sold on their platform. And give them props for that. But using the same parties to do so that were originally grading them and possibly being part of the problem may not be the best answer. And is there something better, I don't know. But it clearly seems to be another party in the industry is now jumping in to decide what is best for people in the hobby. My question is when is the industry going to start listening to people in the hobby, rather then simply deciding what is best for them and shoving it down our collective throats?

Exhibitman · #3 05-11-2022, 12:22 AM

This is just eBay trying to force sellers (eventually) to pay it more fees. Sure, it is free now, but the email I got says for a limited time. I expect to wake up one day and find an email from eBay sharing the great news that is going to really boost my sales by charging me only 3% of a card's sale price to have PSA check the damned slab.

Stupid stupid stupid.

Jewish-collector · #4 05-11-2022, 12:36 AM

Sometimes you just gotta say, "It's an unregulated business"

BobC · #5 05-11-2022, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Sometimes you just gotta say, "It's an unregulated business"

Ain't that the truth!

glchen · #6 05-11-2022, 02:19 AM

I think ebay having CSG validate raw cards over a certain value makes a lot of sense, given that there is so much fraud out there. However, as others have said, having PSA validate graded cards doesn't make much sense because there doesn't seem to be much ROI there. Virtually all graded cards will be genuine, and there is too much lost in the cost of shipping to make this worth it.

However, there are a couple scenarios where I can see that this will be useful. The first is the empty box scam. This is where the seller sends the buyer an empty box that doesn't have the card in it. Obviously if this goes to PSA, they would be an objective 3rd party, and say that the seller never sent the card, which would dissuade many sellers from trying this. (I guess the seller can claim that PSA lost the card.) Next is the example where the seller doesn't actually own the card that they are trying to sell. See thread for T210 Joe Jackson (Link). Obviously, when the seller tries to send the card to PSA, that card would not be present, so it would quickly be pointed out as fraud.

I think these examples lead to the point of what ebay is probably trying to do here. Why do folks prefer to buy high value items from auction houses rather than ebay? (Notwithstanding the recent Goldin issue -Link), people trust that the auction houses will validate that the stuff that they are auctioning is genuine, not tampered with, and they actually have it. With ebay, if you have a low feedback seller, you have no idea if you are dealing with some sort of scam, so people are reluctant to bid very high. Even if you go through buyer protection, you need to jump through a bunch of hoops, so you are always concerned that things might not go your way, and therefore, you may refrain from bidding. However, with this graded card protection, you would have a lot more faith that you will either get the card that you bid for or you'll get a quick refund without hassles, so you have more confidence to bid higher. And higher bids mean more fees for ebay (which will definitely raise fees anyway to pass these costs to the seller).

BobC · #7 05-11-2022, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glchen

I think ebay having CSG validate raw cards over a certain value makes a lot of sense, given that there is so much fraud out there. However, as others have said, having PSA validate graded cards doesn't make much sense because there doesn't seem to be much ROI there. Virtually all graded cards will be genuine, and there is too much lost in the cost of shipping to make this worth it.

However, there are a couple scenarios where I can see that this will be useful. The first is the empty box scam. This is where the seller sends the buyer an empty box that doesn't have the card in it. Obviously if this goes to PSA, they would be an objective 3rd party, and say that the seller never sent the card, which would dissuade many sellers from trying this. (I guess the seller can claim that PSA lost the card.) Next is the example where the seller doesn't actually own the card that they are trying to sell. See thread for T210 Joe Jackson (Link). Obviously, when the seller tries to send the card to PSA, that card would not be present, so it would quickly be pointed out as fraud.

I think these examples lead to the point of what ebay is probably trying to do here. Why do folks prefer to buy high value items from auction houses rather than ebay? (Notwithstanding the recent Goldin issue -Link), people trust that the auction houses will validate that the stuff that they are auctioning is genuine, not tampered with, and they actually have it. With ebay, if you have a low feedback seller, you have no idea if you are dealing with some sort of scam, so people are reluctant to bid very high. Even if you go through buyer protection, you need to jump through a bunch of hoops, so you are always concerned that things might not go your way, and therefore, you may refrain from bidding. However, with this graded card protection, you would have a lot more faith that you will either get the card that you bid for or you'll get a quick refund without hassles, so you have more confidence to bid higher. And higher bids mean more fees for ebay (which will definitely raise fees anyway to pass these costs to the seller).

Agree, and why I thought the original idea of having raw cards reviewed made some sense as well. Will be curious to see where this ultimately ends up. (ie: the final threshold amounts they set and who ends up paying how much for the service)

BobC · #8 05-11-2022, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This is just eBay trying to force sellers (eventually) to pay it more fees. Sure, it is free now, but the email I got says for a limited time. I expect to wake up one day and find an email from eBay sharing the great news that is going to really boost my sales by charging me only 3% of a card's sale price to have PSA check the damned slab.

Stupid stupid stupid.

I definitely agree with the stupid part, but not 100% certain they're doing it just to ultimately raise their fees. I would assume CSG and PSA aren't going to do all this work for nothing, and would expect that a significant portion of any such increased fees would be going to them eventually.

At some point it would potentially behoove someone like a Greg Morris cards to dump Ebay and maybe just sell through their own site, through Facebook, or some other platform. If nothing else, it will likely push many independent sellers to just go straight to AHs with their better cards. Or if they're in need of quick cash, other venues like our own BST forum, or even live shows.

I know we on the vintage collecting side are generally more against such crazy things like this happening in the first place in our hobby, but eventually you figure the shine will disappear to some extent for the new investors as well if they keep just jacking up fees and such. At least you would think so.

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