Players not yet eligible for the HOF

mrreality68 · #1 05-20-2022, 04:00 PM

Actually Peter that is a really good and most of your comments next to each are close to how I feel.
Injuries being the obvious concern that could derail some of these like Degrom.

Freddie Freeman is not to soon to tell. I would put him as likely but like all others has to continue to do what he has been doing for a few more years. I think the NL MVP in the Covid Shortened seasoned really help his case.

Cano I would not put on the list at all because he was likely until the PED's and now with that and losing the those games to add to his states I would not think he has any chance at all.

Harper with 2 NL MVP's I would put as a lock so as long as he is not hampered by injuries he is young enough to keep piling on.

Stanton to me is a lock or super close and he has an MVP and 2 silver slugger awards. HE is young enough and under contract long enough that as long as he stays healthy he will hit 500 HR's and put up other big numbers

oldjudge · #2 05-20-2022, 04:08 PM

I think Altuve is a coin flip at this point.Yes, he is a career .300+ hitter with an MVP, but he has not played at HOF levels the last few years. He has the potential to play himself out of a spot in Cooperstown. Plus, he is a member of those cheating Astros which will cost him some votes.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 05-20-2022, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I think Altuve is a coin flip at this point.Yes, he is a career .300+ hitter with an MVP, but he has not played at HOF levels the last few years. He has the potential to play himself out of a spot in Cooperstown. Plus, he is a member of those cheating Astros which will cost him some votes.

He hit 31 HR last year and hit .278, that's pretty damn good for a 2b IMO. His only bad year was the short 2020.

oldjudge · #4 05-20-2022, 04:59 PM

Minute Maid park is a band box with a 315 ft left field line and only 360 to left center. Altuve only hit 12 HRs on the road last year. Playing in Houston is like playing in Boston with a much lower fence.

oldjudge · #5 05-20-2022, 05:07 PM

Sabathia is pretty much Andy Pettitte, really good pitcher who falls a little short of being a HOFer. This is coming from a Yankee fan.

John1941 · #6 05-21-2022, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Sabathia is pretty much Andy Pettitte, really good pitcher who falls a little short of being a HOFer. This is coming from a Yankee fan.

Also coming from a Yankees fan, I think 251 wins, 3093 K's, and a 116 ERA+ is a hall of famer.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #7 05-21-2022, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1941

Also coming from a Yankees fan, I think 251 wins, 3093 K's, and a 116 ERA+ is a hall of famer.

Beats the pants off of Jack Morris in terms of how he compares to his contemporaries.

Gorditadogg · #8 05-21-2022, 11:05 AM

At first base I would add Goldschmidt and rank them:

Pujols
Votto
Goldschmidt
Freeman

Votto played at an All Star level until he was 35 and has 6 years as 7th or better in MVP voting. Led the league in OBP 7 times and OPS twice. 7-year peak WAR of 46.2. OPS+ of 146. Played his whole career with the Reds. I'd say he is borderline because he "only" has 331 HRs, and it looks like this may be his last year, but he's had a very nice career.

Goldschmidt has 5 years in the top 7 MVP voting and also has 4 Gold Gloves for some reason. OPS+ of 142, 7-year WAR of 42.2. BA is .294 with 286 HRs. I doubt he makes the HOF but he has better advanced stars than Eddie Murray for instance, but with only half the games that Murray played.

Freeman has 4 years in the top 7 MVP voting and 1 GG. His OPS+ is 139 but his 7-year peak WAR is only 33.4. BA of .296 with 274 HRs. He is only 32 years old, 2 years younger than Goldschmidt, so he could accumulate more and he hasn't slowed down yet. Still, while he has been remarkably consistent over his career so far, I'd say it's unlikely he makes the Hall.

vintagetoppsguy · #9 05-23-2022, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

those cheating Astros

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

This is coming from a Yankee fan.

I think someone forgot to tell you that your Yankees did the exact same thing. But, hey, if you want to turn a blind eye and pretend it never happened, so be it.

Svabinsky78 · #10 09-09-2023, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Sabathia is pretty much Andy Pettitte, really good pitcher who falls a little short of being a HOFer. This is coming from a Yankee fan.

Ummm, yeah, no. He has about 700 more strikeouts than Pettite in about the same amount of seasons.....also has a Cy Young...plus, no HGH admission. So, yeah, he is not pretty much Andy Pettite. He is a lock.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #11 05-20-2022, 04:22 PM

I'm leaning towards DeGrom being "unlikely" and that's generous. He's the same age as Kershaw. I know wins aren't everything, or even all that important anymore, but can you imagine a starting pitcher with under 100 wins making the hall??? Unless he figures out a way to stay on the mound, AND the injuries don't rob him of his effectiveness, it's a real possibility.

G1911 · #12 05-20-2022, 04:56 PM

This is a good list. I have no idea what statistical general standards will be used for the pitchers after ~Verlander/Scherzer/Kershaw. They play so little that a new bar will have to be enacted to allow them in, but where those lines will emerge and be drawn is a mystery.

I'd call Beltran and Altuve maybe's for moral posturing and not performance. HOF Voting has grown increasingly political over time.

Then there's guys like Tulowitzki, Hanley, etc. that might sneak in via a vets committee some day, that don't beat the HOF average but the almost random dice rolls of the VC's might reasonably encompass.

dmats33312 · #13 05-20-2022, 05:01 PM

Can�t see how Mauer, Beltran, Votto, Posey, Altuve get in but Utley doesn�t. Might be some recency bias there but non of these players were better than Utley�s prime and most have less counting stats. Add in Utley has a championship that some of these players don�t and was the core for that to me he is as likely as them. If we are talking WAR only one of them is greater and one other has a chance to be.

Mike D. · #14 05-20-2022, 05:15 PM

Chris Sale was a maybe but gets less likely by the day.

Craig Kimbrel? Joe Nathan? If relievers are in, these guys are in the ballpark.

If Utley gets in (and I think he�s got a shot) then maybe Pedroia or Kinsler
? Borderline, but Pedroia has the hardware and championships that may help.

Mike D. · #15 05-20-2022, 05:16 PM

Staying on the Red Sox, Xander and Devers feel undervalued and might be good to buy - long way to go for both but good starts.

Tabe · #16 05-20-2022, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmats33312

Can’t see how Mauer, Beltran, Votto, Posey, Altuve get in but Utley doesn’t. Might be some recency bias there but non of these players were better than Utley’s prime and most have less counting stats. Add in Utley has a championship that some of these players don’t and was the core for that to me he is as likely as them. If we are talking WAR only one of them is greater and one other has a chance to be.

Mauer wasn't better than Utley's prime? Seriously? The Gold Glove catcher who won 3 batting titles and an MVP while leading the league in slugging and OPS+ wasn't better than Utley? C'mon. Prime vs Prime, Mauer was better AND played a more important position AND was better at that position. None of that is a knock on Utley, who was an outstanding player for about 5 years and good player for a bunch more.

G1911 · #17 05-20-2022, 06:10 PM

MAuer, Votto, Posey and Altuve all had better primes than Utley did. Utley and Beltran were largely accumulators (which is not a bad thing and often produces more total value).

BobC · #18 05-20-2022, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I think Altuve is a coin flip at this point.Yes, he is a career .300+ hitter with an MVP, but he has not played at HOF levels the last few years. He has the potential to play himself out of a spot in Cooperstown. Plus, he is a member of those cheating Astros which will cost him some votes.

Could one of the reasons he hasn't been playing at a HOF level these past few years be because he couldn't cheat like he was before, during these past few years? If I had a vote, I would most definitely take that into serious consideration. But as Peter pointed out, his one really bad year was the shortened 2020 season. Still seems to be hitting well despite not always knowing what is coming.

Svabinsky78 · #19 09-09-2023, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Harper with 2 NL MVP's I would put as a lock so as long as he is not hampered by injuries he is young enough to keep piling on.

Dale Murphy has 2 MVPs.....along with basically 400 HRs, 2100 hits, almost 1300 RBIs, 7 AS, 5 GGs, 4 SSs.... I think Murphy should be in, personally speaking.

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