ebay authenticity guarantee limits now 250/750

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

No, I get it. eBay is the world's biggest garage sale. Hodgepodge galore, no specialization in any one area.

My comments on the last were pointed to the fact that they would seem to be implementing a very specific policy on something which they clearly have no expertise with. Maybe from a business standpoint they think it will help with the number of cases opened and returns initiated and that sort of thing, and that would be valid. But as to nuances of how collectors (and those that would consider themselves investors) would deal with the situation or the detail of operating practices for this TPG or that, you can't tell me that eBay has a clue. It's just an interesting proposition.

I agree with you John, they have no special expertise. But just like how they suddenly decided to start collecting sales tax for every auction, I think a lot of their reasoning was that they figured that if they didn't, they could be losing sellers. Think of all the people selling on Ebay that don't really know, or want to know, about collecting and remitting sales taxes. Also, that would have called for all their sellers to start registering with various states for licenses to collect and remit sales taxes. My guess is that Ebay saw that a lot of sellers would be gun shy and not want to bother doing that, or ever put up with the hassle of sales tax collection at all. And Ebay probably figured that since they are such a huge marketplace, they'd have a target on their back from states looking to find out who was selling on their site and ask for info to go after them. Ebay actually sells nothing, and is not at all responsible for collecting and remitting sales taxes to states. I can easily see Ebay thinking that by going overboard, and working out a deal with the states to collect sales tax on behalf of all their sellers, the states would be happy, and the sellers wouldn't have to deal with this and register with states and keep track of all this. That way they stay selling on Ebay.

These other moves regarding authentication are likely some kind of a pre-emptive things they think will help keep customers and sellers for them down the road. I know there are lots of people who think this new authentication program by Ebay is a scheme for them to be able to end up billing more fees. I don't think this is a fee issue for Ebay, just more of a "making sure the customers are happy" thing.

[Snapolit1]

FYI, eBay has also rolled out authentication services for sneakers, watches and luxury handbags. So clearly there is a bigger business focus here than sucking up to PSA or any of the other theories that have been advanced in this corner of the world.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

FYI, eBay has also rolled out authentication services for sneakers, watches and luxury handbags. So clearly there is a bigger business focus here than sucking up to PSA or any of the other theories that have been advanced in this corner of the world.

Exactly, it isn't solely about PSA, CSG and card or slab authentication. It is a means to an end for them, to keep customers and sellers happy and coming back.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by BobC

Exactly, it isn't solely about PSA, CSG and card or slab authentication. It is a means to an end for them, to keep customers and sellers happy and coming back.

https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee-seller/

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee-seller/

Exactly Steve, I think the authentication programs are to fend off customer concerns for fakes and bad sellers, and possibly weed out at least some of the bad/fake sellers at the same time. Keeps customer confidence strong, and helps the legit sellers want to stick around as well since this can potentially help them against scam buyers trying to rip honest sellers off.

And if Ebay eventually gets to make a little bit in doing so, they aren't going to turn it down obviously. I'm just not so sure, as some others seem to be, that profit is one of their main motives in doing this, unless you're talking about the continuing profit from having sellers and buyers on their platform. I'm referring to the idea of this authentication program for the cards necessarily being a new profit center for them as the main reason for doing it.

[Snapolit1]

Seems to me that if eBay imposes a fee for this at some point it would have to be something the buyer elects (check the box) and shoulders the cost of. How could you force this upon a buyer and seller who decline to get involved? Doesn't seem possible.

Ebay is Satan's spawn because of the fraud and they don't seem to give a crap.

Ebay is Satan's spawn in trial testing a system to try to deal with fraud.

Some of youse guyze ain't easy to please.

[Jewish-collector]

I've always been surprised Amazon never really gotten more heavily involved in sports cards auctions & sales. They could run ebay out of business if they wanted to.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

FYI, eBay has also rolled out authentication services for sneakers, watches and luxury handbags. So clearly there is a bigger business focus here than sucking up to PSA or any of the other theories that have been advanced in this corner of the world.

Thanks Steve, that's interesting to know. Clearly as a business decision eBay can do anything they want, and most collectors who utilize them for the superior marketplace characteristics have no choice but to meekly comply.

How many of us have some kind of moderate / large issue with at least some aspect of how PSA does their business? I would guess most. How many of us continue to own and buy PSA slabbed cards anyway?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by BobC

I agree with you John, they have no special expertise. But just like how they suddenly decided to start collecting sales tax for every auction, I think a lot of their reasoning was that they figured that if they didn't, they could be losing sellers. Think of all the people selling on Ebay that don't really know, or want to know, about collecting and remitting sales taxes. Also, that would have called for all their sellers to start registering with various states for licenses to collect and remit sales taxes. My guess is that Ebay saw that a lot of sellers would be gun shy and not want to bother doing that, or ever put up with the hassle of sales tax collection at all.

I forget the specifics, but my understanding on the sales tax decision was that a court case came down which put the handwriting for that on the wall. I'm not sure if eBay was compelled to put that in place by a certain date or if it was just obvious that they would soon be challenged if they didn't. I will agree between issues like this, and changes to policy such as surrounding authentication - it would seem more difficult to business on eBay than ever before.

When I first joined eBay, you could see full info. on both sellers and buyers, and even message competing bidders. I once contacted a bidder who kept topping me saying "Hey could I persuade you to let me win this (vintage scouting photo...) because my father-in-law is in it, and I would like to give it to him as a gift." The guy wrote back and graciously agreed. Can you imagine anything like that happening today?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I forget the specifics, but my understanding on the sales tax decision was that a court case came down which put the handwriting for that on the wall. I'm not sure if eBay was compelled to put that in place by a certain date or if it was just obvious that they would soon be challenged if they didn't. I will agree between issues like this, and changes to policy such as surrounding authentication - it would seem more difficult to business on eBay than ever before.

When I first joined eBay, you could see full info. on both sellers and buyers, and even message competing bidders. I once contacted a bidder who kept topping me saying "Hey could I persuade you to let me win this (vintage scouting photo...) because my father-in-law is in it, and I would like to give it to him as a gift." The guy wrote back and graciously agreed. Can you imagine anything like that happening today?

John,

Ebay has definitely changed over the years, as you noted. They don't want anyone talking and sharing info so they potentially can have them go and deal off Ebay. They are just as strict and concerned with keeping their business with these other moves they are making as well. That seems pretty clear. I've worked with so many different businesses and business owners over the years, nothing surprises me as to the extent and levels many businesses will go for to see their goals achieved. Ebay does not have a monopoly on being an online sales platform, and they know it. Yet, they are the biggest and most well known platform out there, and stay there by being pre-emptive and taking care of things before they become a potential problem. This is all part of them staying #1.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by BobC

John,
This is all part of them staying #1.

Of course. I'm just reflecting on how innocent it all once seemed to be.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Of course. I'm just reflecting on how innocent it all once seemed to be.

Yeah, it may have seemed innocent to you and me, but to Ebay it has always been serious business to them. It is just that we maybe haven't really been paying attention to everything they're doing until more of these recent moves that seem unusual to many. I would think most everything Ebay does is calculated and with a purpose that they aren't going to just openly tell us about.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by BobC

Yeah, it may have seemed innocent to you and me, but to Ebay it has always been serious business to them. It is just that we maybe haven't really been paying attention to everything they're doing until more of these recent moves that seem unusual to many. I would think most everything Ebay does is calculated and with a purpose that they aren't going to just openly tell us about.

Bob, the point of all this seems to be that the serious business and profit motive are not necessarily in the best interest of all buyers / collectors. Would you agree? Of course eBay is not going to advertise their motives in detail to their customer base.

I would think that this means that many are looking for ways around such formal platforms with fee structures and tax reporting requirements. To your earlier point, many (N54 is one) still exist, and I would guess that other ways to do business off the cuff would continue to arise.

Interestingly enough, the one thing I saw on Facebook last night related to this authentication model, and the customer was very happy with it. Of course he had just bought a '52 Topps #311, so that might have been worth waiting an extra 2 days for.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Bob, the point of all this seems to be that the serious business and profit motive are not necessarily in the best interest of all buyers / collectors. Would you agree? Of course eBay is not going to advertise their motives in detail to their customer base.

I would think that this means that many are looking for ways around such formal platforms with fee structures and tax reporting requirements. To your earlier point, many (N54 is one) still exist, and I would guess that other ways to do business off the cuff would continue to arise.

Interestingly enough, the one thing I saw on Facebook last night related to this authentication model, and the customer was very happy with it. Of course he had just bought a '52 Topps #311, so that might have been worth waiting an extra 2 days for.

John,

I absolutely agree some business, like Ebay, isn't necessarily doing things for the benefit of their buyers and sellers, they are doing it for their own bottom line. Don't forget, Ebay is a publicly traded company since 1998, and answers to their shareholders, not their buyers and sellers. It just works out that in some instances, what is good for Ebay, is to be doing good things for their buyers and sellers so they keep coming back.

Ebay didn't start collecting sales taxes on behalf of all sellers because they wanted to. Same with things like these authentication programs. Ebay was doing well and making lots of money before instituting such changes, why would they suddenly decide to go through all the additional time, effort, expense, and hassle to do these new things if they didn't think it made sense to them from a business standpoint in the long run?

And as you noted, some of these new changes they've made are actually going to work against Ebay's business. Like sales taxes being collected on all sales now. Buyers hate that they are now getting hit with sales tax on everything. Just go back and read posts from some members on here in threads right after that new rule was put into effect by Ebay. So Ebay may lose some buyers from making that change. But in doing so, Ebay is likely also thinking about the additional hassle and work their sellers are going to have to now deal with in regards to sales taxes, and how that may drive many of them to stop selling on Ebay. So by taking on the sales tax collection, remitting and reporting obligation for all sellers, it removes that burden from them and makes them more likely to continue selling on Ebay. And something else many people probably didn't even consider, it also appeases many of the bigger sellers on Ebay who would have had to start collecting sales taxes in various states due to that Supreme Court decision back in 2018 regarding sales taxes for online sellers, South Dakota vs. Wayfair. Because of their larger sales volume, many of these bigger Ebay sellers would be forced to start charging sales taxes in many states, whereas the smaller Ebay sellers wouldn't reach those thresholds requiring them to collect sales taxes, and wouldn't ever have to charge sales taxes on sales made to other states. This would give an unfair advantage to smaller Ebay sellers over the big sellers, which would piss the big sellers off. By Ebay deciding to just handle the sales tax themselves on all Ebay transactions, it appeases all the sellers, and especially their biggest sellers, by not giving some of their competitors who otherwise wouldn't have to charge a sales tax, a price advantage over them due to the sales tax. Ebay may lose some customers who don't want to pay the sales tax, but they won't lose them all. But if you lose the sellers, there are no Ebay customers at all because nothing is being sold.

See the logic behind such a business decision? I'm guessing there is similar thinking and logic behind these other decisions and changes Ebay has been making as well.