Gun ownership poll

Carter08 · #1 07-13-2022, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Then start proposing some.

My proposal don�t work for you folks. Requirements that every gun purchaser take a class and show proof he or she owns a safe. Maybe a law that parents of underage kids that gain access to their weapons and use them in a school can be thrown in jail, greater restrictions on assault rifles. As for the current weapons that are out there, these laws can be applied forward. If you own an assault rifle, go out and buy a safe or if your kid gets hold of it you are going to jail.

G1911 · #2 07-13-2022, 07:51 PM

For the three hundredth time, assault rifles are already heavily, heavily restricted and cost tens of thousands of dollars and months of waiting times. The NFA bans any assault rifles not registered by January 1, 1986. You cannot go and buy an assault rifle at the store.

Troll better.

Carter08 · #3 07-13-2022, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

For the three hundredth time, assault rifles are already heavily, heavily restricted and cost tens of thousands of dollars and months of waiting times. The NFA bans any assault rifles not registered by January 1, 1986. You cannot go and buy an assault rifle at the store.

Troll better.

Owners of assault rifles have to have a safe and if their kid uses one in a school they go to jail. Address actual points. You�re the biggest troll on this site bar none.

G1911 · #4 07-13-2022, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

Owners of assault rifles have to have a safe and if their kid uses one in a school they go to jail. Address actual points. You�re the biggest troll on this site bar none.

I stated an actual, verifiable fact. See, you're just shitposting. You're the only one here who isn't even sincere.

Carter08 · #5 07-13-2022, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

I stated an actual, verifiable fact. See, you're just shitposting. You're the only one here who isn't even sincere.

What do you think about a law that say anyone who currently owns an assault rifle will go to jail if someone gets hold of it and uses it in a mass shooting? Address actual points. I feel like I�m talking to a (fairly dumb) wall.

G1911 · #6 07-13-2022, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

What do you think about a law that say anyone who currently owns an assault rifle will go to jail if someone gets hold of it and uses it in a mass shooting? Address actual points. I feel like I�m talking to a (fairly dumb) wall.

I don�t see how a victim of theft should be treated as a perpetrator. When has this ever happened? I know you�re just trolling as your original reply and your stalking made clear, but you really should try harder. You�re still pretending not to even know what an assault rifle is after being told 50 times. There are very, very few of them and they are incredibly tightly regulated, a toy for the elite. The registration closed in 1986.

Carter08 · #7 07-13-2022, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

I don�t see how a victim of theft should be treated as a perpetrator. When has this ever happened? I know you�re just trolling as your original reply and your stalking made clear, but you really should try harder. You�re still pretending not to even know what an assault rifle is after being told 50 times. There are very, very few of them and they are incredibly tightly regulated, a toy for the elite. The registration closed in 1986.

A kid gets an AR-15 from their home and shoots up a school. If their parents didn�t lock it up properly they face consequences. If an AR-15 isn�t your definition of an assault rifle, then substitute in an AR-15 and similar. Calling me a troll when you�re the single biggest troll on this site is amazing. Keep it coming.

bnorth · #8 07-13-2022, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

What do you think about a law that say anyone who currently owns an assault rifle will go to jail if someone gets hold of it and uses it in a mass shooting? Address actual points. I feel like I�m talking to a (fairly dumb) wall.

That would be a horrible law. Anybody with internet can break into pretty much any home safe in less than a minute. Safes are not that safe. A rare earth hockey puck magnet or 2 will open most in seconds. The ones with key pads are even easier to open.

We have discussed how worthless safes are in the past when used to keep high end cards away from robbers. A member posted several videos on how easy they are to open. It was pretty eye opening.

Carter08 · #9 07-13-2022, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

That would be a horrible law. Anybody with internet can break into pretty much any home safe in less than a minute. Safes are not that safe. A rare earth hockey puck magnet or 2 will open most in seconds. The ones with key pads are even easier to open.

We have discussed how worthless safes are in the past when used to keep high end cards away from robbers. A member posted several videos on how easy they are to open. It was pretty eye opening.

So when I sell a gun to someone it�s very apparent that someone will ill intentions may easily get it from them? Seems like a bad deal.

CollectingAmericasPastime · #10 07-13-2022, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

My proposal don�t work for you folks. Requirements that every gun purchaser take a class and show proof he or she owns a safe. Maybe a law that parents of underage kids that gain access to their weapons and use them in a school can be thrown in jail, greater restrictions on assault rifles. As for the current weapons that are out there, these laws can be applied forward. If you own an assault rifle, go out and buy a safe or if your kid gets hold of it you are going to jail.

Utopian ideas aren't real world solutions.

Carter08 · #11 07-13-2022, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Utopian ideas aren't real world solutions.

Let�s arm teachers and hope for the best. Good plan.

1952boyntoncollector · #12 07-14-2022, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

Let’s arm teachers and hope for the best. Good plan.

'
Lets not arm teachers and hope for the best when shooters come in.. (and also let students bring in arms who avoid the metal detectors)

.looks like its been working thus far....looks like a much greater plan.

steve B · #13 07-14-2022, 10:32 AM

It's like you guys need a translator while everyone is speaking english.
(Not uncommon between groups with no common specialized language)

So, a few definitions. and information.
Single shot- Each round must be loaded individually maybe with mechanical help, but it requires a person to do it.
Semi- Automatic- The gun loads the next round itself. But the operator still needs to pull the trigger. Most hunting rifles are made this way, and also many shotguns.
Fully automatic- Pull the trigger, it shoots until you let off or run out.
(selective fire not included for simplicity)

Assault weapon
One side- any gun with a set of possibly scary looking features. Pistol grips accessory mounting rails, that perforated tube grip thingy on the front etc.
Other side
a- There isn't really any such thing, no manufacturer calls their product that.
b- There are however guns that are fully automatic. And these have been heavily regulated for close to 90 years.

The key laws covering fully automatic.
1934 NFA. requires tons of paperwork, a then heavy tax on transfer, and registration, and an in depth background check. For all automatic weapons as well as a host of others, like shotguns with less than 18 inch barrels, weapons built as part of another object like a sword cane. and much more. Last I checked, only three crimes had been committed with an NFA registered firearm.

1968 Gun control act
Until this went into effect, it was possible to register a previously unregistered NFA weapon. So if you inherited grand uncle Eddies tommy gun you could make it legal. After? Not so much.
(A friend considered buying a sword cane, and NFA item, but it was not registered. He asked the ATF the question hypothetically what it would require to make it legal, and the answer was reams of probably unavailable paperwork, and even then they might not do it. )

1986 gun owners protection act.
Made transfer of fully automatic firearms illegal unless the firearm was legally owned prior to May 19 1986

Making Uncle Eddies Tommy gun worth a bundle of cash! Hope your relatives registered it...
-------------------------

In my opinion, the assault weapons bans we have had are basically banning things based on their appearance.
Many hunting or target shooting rifles are much more powerful than an AR-15, but are "safe" because they have no features that make them look like a modern military firearm.
Sort of like banning a car because it's a "sports car" which would also ban most Volkswagen Beetle based kit cars. but the Tesla performance models that look like a fairly ordinary car would be just fine.

Mark17 · #14 07-14-2022, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

In my opinion, the assault weapons bans we have had are basically banning things based on their appearance.
Many hunting or target shooting rifles are much more powerful than an AR-15, but are "safe" because they have no features that make them look like a modern military firearm.

I would bet anything that more than 50% of people who want to ban "assault rifles" think the "AR" in AR-15 stands for "Assault Rifle."

Your post is right, and I think most of the gun banning crowd are pretty ignorant of these facts.

G1911 · #15 07-14-2022, 10:49 AM

�Assault Weapon� - a term made by banners that has no consistent definition or actual meaning, varying between jurisdiction and banning mostly cosmetic features, almost always rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of what that thing even is or mechanically does.

�Assault Rifle� - an actual mechanical thing, a class of rifle that has largely supplanted the battle rifle in military service. An assault rifle is a rifle or carbine, that used a detachable box magazine (a clip is something different), an intermediate lower powered cartridge, and the ability to fire more than one round with a pull of a trigger. Civilian AR-15�s are, factually, not assault rifles.

steve B · #16 07-14-2022, 10:49 AM

I would support

More in depth background checks
Better reporting of problematic behavior so the current background checks could catch it. That failing seems to be very common in mass shootings.
Opening up the backround check system to the public. Mass currently requires a background check on private sales, but they must be done by a licensed dealer. A financial gift to the few remaining around here.

more support for mental illness both detection and treatment.
An easier path to restricting someone whose mental illness shows up in violent tendencies.

Redefining what a mass shooting is.
Currently it's any shooting with more than a certain number of victims. (I think it's 3, but could be wrong)
So many things are included in that, from the obvious ones where someone shoots at a random group at an event, to a gang shooting up a rival gangs corner, to someone taking out their own family to a brawl at an event leading to shootings.
All tragic, but all so very different and not worthy of being lumped together under the same heading.

CollectingAmericasPastime · #17 07-14-2022, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

Let�s arm teachers and hope for the best. Good plan.

I think my posts have pretty well identified the actual root causes of why we're seeing an uptick in school shootings/violence in society. It will takes a few generations to correct these issues, so in the meantime, my goal is to make sure any potential shooter is down/dead before the kids/teachers are. Fighting fire with fire in this case IS a viable solution.

Carter08 · #18 07-14-2022, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I think my posts have pretty well identified the actual root causes of why we're seeing an uptick in school shootings/violence in society. It will takes a few generations to correct these issues, so in the meantime, my goal is to make sure any potential shooter is down/dead before the kids/teachers are. Fighting fire with fire in this case IS a viable solution.

https://www.edworkingpapers.com/site...s/ai21-476.pdf

Deertick · #19 07-14-2022, 01:01 PM

I guess if we are calling people who don't want unfettered access "banners", I'll use "willy-nillys" to differentiate the groups.

The willy-nillys fought with all of it's might background checks and waiting periods. They still fight the closing of the 'gun show loophole'. The FBI doesn't complete background checks on hundreds of thousands of requests within the 3 day period (noted, not all result in purchase), meaning that legally, the sale can be completed. (Although the few gun shops I have patronized made it clear that they wait for the background all clear.)

Waiting period / background checks have been shown to put a dent in ineligible individuals purchasing firearms legally. Something like 35% rejection due to felonies or DVI's. Make every purchase everywhere subject to the same standards.

Also, I fully support charging individuals who have their unsecured / unattended firearms stolen / accessed and subsequently used in a felony. And, no, in the center console of your unlocked vehicle is NOT secured.

Willy nillys, who's with me?

G1911 · #20 07-14-2022, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deertick

I guess if we are calling people who don't want unfettered access "banners", I'll use "willy-nillys" to differentiate the groups.

"Banners" was used while discussing bans on mostly cosmetic features and design elements. So quite literally.... banning.

I am somewhat surprised at how much of this thread has been spent with people getting upset at or refusing to use the dictionary. This is not usually such a problem in these debates elsewhere.

Carter08 · #21 07-14-2022, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deertick

I guess if we are calling people who don't want unfettered access "banners", I'll use "willy-nillys" to differentiate the groups.

The willy-nillys fought with all of it's might background checks and waiting periods. They still fight the closing of the 'gun show loophole'. The FBI doesn't complete background checks on hundreds of thousands of requests within the 3 day period (noted, not all result in purchase), meaning that legally, the sale can be completed. (Although the few gun shops I have patronized made it clear that they wait for the background all clear.)

Waiting period / background checks have been shown to put a dent in ineligible individuals purchasing firearms legally. Something like 35% rejection due to felonies or DVI's. Make every purchase everywhere subject to the same standards.

Also, I fully support charging individuals who have their unsecured / unattended firearms stolen / accessed and subsequently used in a felony. And, no, in the center console of your unlocked vehicle is NOT secured.

Willy nillys, who's with me?

Good effort but you will not get thoughtful responses.

bnorth · #22 07-14-2022, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

Good effort but you will not get thoughtful responses.

They are thoughtful responses you just don't like them because they do not agree with you.

I HAVE had a gun stolen out of my locked house. Why by any stretch of the imagination should I be held responseable for a gun that some POS stole from me?

I was working at Whiteman AFB and living off base. I had a week off so took a short vacation. When I got home one of my guns was missing. I instantly called the PoPo to report it. They did show up but acted like it was no big deal and didn't even want to do a report.

Weirdly the thieves stole by far the cheapest gun of the 4 in the room a Ruger 9mm. I did get it back almost a year later because it ended up being 2 people that broke into my house. One of them got arrested on a different charge and turned in his friend for stealing my gun to get his current charges reduced.

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