Collectors vs money hungry people?

[homerunhitter]

Does anyone in our hobby collect for the pure love of the hobby? Or are more people in the hobby just to make a dollar? The bad economy has caused the sharks in the hobby to come out. Seems like more people than not are only in this hobby to make money! (Seems like a lot of desperate sellers hurting for money out there!)

[Republicaninmass]

Hi, when was the bad economy?


They hobby is filled with people passing the hot potato of the month, as well as plenty of people who live the cards.

Edited : desperate sellers? The asking prices are to the contrary!

[Casey2296]

Hi Bert,

I see your posting on the modern thread with your question. To answer your question, no, the modern world is all about turn and burn, hype, etc. it's tantamount to walking in a whorehouse and asking "aren't there any nice girls here?".

I think what you're looking for are true collectors, you'll find them in pre war and they have been around a long time, they care about integrity, honesty, and commitment. While money is a factor it's way down on the list of what's important. It's an awesome community that the modern guys have no skill set to engage with.

Best of luck and success.

[Peter_Spaeth]

For something so unimportant we sure seem to have a lot of discussions about money and values.

[Exhibitman]

I know quite a few collectors who are in it just for the pure enjoyment of it. Unsurprisingly (to me), they are all wealthy. The rest of us mere mortals have budgets and money is always a consideration. I have to flip cards to make money to buy more cards, so yeah, i am in a lot of it for the money. But not all of it. You can't collect obscure boxing type cards from around the world if you are in it for the money.

And as Phil ably said it, modern is a whorehouse full of 'bros looking to flip cards and gloss themselves on social media for their business acumen. Of course, on an overall scale, being the coolest modern card 'bro is like being the toughest muppet.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For something so unimportant we sure seem to have a lot of discussions about money and values.

i see values as the most important thing in this hobby, money is secondary.

[homerunhitter]

Great discussion here guys! Keep it up! I do see that vintage collectors are more passionate in what they collect. Modern collectors are turn and burn and smile for their YouTube audience! They don’t have a connection go their cards only to their money it seems.

Flipping cards to buy more cards for your collection, I totally see and I totally understand that. But I see more people in this hobby that are in it got the pure art of money making versus collecting.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Great discussion here guys! Keep it up! I do see that vintage collectors are more passionate in what they collect. Modern collectors are turn and burn and smile for their YouTube audience! They don’t have a connection go their cards only to their money it seems.

Flipping cards to buy more cards for your collection, I totally see and I totally understand that. But I see more people in this hobby that are in it got the pure art of money making versus collecting.

I highly disagree with this. Yes old cards are cool and I have many of them. I get WAY more enjoyment collecting cards from the 80s and 90s of players I actually went to a game and watched play. It is like throwing cash out the window of a moving car but there is not much better than opening packs of junk wax

[Casey2296]

In the pre war community, ime, its about who you are as a collector and a human being. I've talked to guys who've had a card for my collection for over a year, forging a relationship that had nothing to do with cards. And when he was ready he sold it to me, but the takeaway was the relationship we formed in the meantime. These are cards that are buried in long time collections and they have no reason to sell other than helping out another collector who is like minded. Cards with less than a 10 pop that just aren't available in the public forum. That to me is the rewarding part of collecting, carrying on the legacy of previous, serious collectors.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

i see values as the most important thing in this hobby, money is secondary.

If I wasn't clear, sorry, I meant card values which is closely related to money.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Great discussion here guys! Keep it up! I do see that vintage collectors are more passionate in what they collect. Modern collectors are turn and burn and smile for their YouTube audience! They don’t have a connection go their cards only to their money it seems.

Flipping cards to buy more cards for your collection, I totally see and I totally understand that. But I see more people in this hobby that are in it got the pure art of money making versus collecting.

Painting all modern guys with a single brush is, IMO, a mistake. Plenty of modern collectors with passion. It's funny, your argument used to be made back in the day about graded collectors, they were somehow inferior morally and less passionate.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If I wasn't clear, sorry, I meant card values which is closely related to money.

Ah, I would agree with that premise.

[homerunhitter]

To clarify what I was saying since it’s clear many don’t understand.

When I say vintage collectors are more passionate about their cards vs modern. What I am saying is when it comes to money vs keeping cards, vintage card collectors seem to chose cards versus making money and modern collectors seem to pick flipping cards to make money and then moving on. That is what I see at card shows, card shops, you tube, Instagram, Facebook and numerous other forums and sites. Of course it isn’t everyone in those groups just generically saying that’s what I see the most.

[Casey2296]

I think you hit the nail on the head.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

graded collectors, they were somehow inferior morally

They are, though

[G1911]

More people are into the money, but there are plenty of pure collectors left.

Investors look down on the collector nerds, the collector/investor combos usually insist true collectors don’t actually even exist, the true collectors hop up on a moral high horse. Old collectors hate the bro’s for being all about the Benjamin’s even as they invest in Mantles and Cobb’s and mostly post about money too, the bro’s think the old collectors are snobby and ageist.

[Jim65]

So if people flip to buy more cards, thats ok? But if people flip to pay rent or buy a yacht, thats money hungry?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

So if people flip to buy more cards, thats ok? But if people flip to pay rent or buy a yacht, thats money hungry?

It makes as much sense as blaming it on modern collectors and pretending that vintage collectors/dealers are some how better.

[ALR-bishop]

“It’s easy to say you would like more money. And that’s what I like about it. Sitting there, rocking back and forth, and wanting that money”…. Jack Handey

[steve B]

I collect everything from vintage to modern. As in 1880's to yesterday.

I seldom sell much, but buying new stuff leaves me with lots of extras that I don't kind moving along for a bit of cash.

to me it's mostly about the cards and the hunt for more interesting things.
But of course the money matters. Not having a huge card budget means having to be more opportunistic in what I buy. Like maybe I start looking for a T206, but find a great deal on a 51 Topps I need so I buy that.
Finding "deals" is the game, and the potential money is the way to keep score.
The card I buy today might be $5 but something I could sell for 10. Not that I will.

It also keeps me sane when the prices get crazy for a while. Seems like just yesterday I could get halfway decent T206 commons for 40, now it's mor elike 100, and I just can't get there mentally. But, I look at the ones I've bought over the last 40+ years and think I've done pretty well. (and oh the opportunities missed if only I'd known...)

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It makes as much sense as blaming it on modern collectors and pretending that vintage collectors/dealers are some how better.

This entire thread is drowning so deeply in confirmation bias that Jacques Cousteau could not possibly survive the dive.

[Republicaninmass]

There are 15 1933 goudey Ruths in the current REA auction.


FIFTEEN RUTHS, and I think 7 1951 bowman Mantle RCs.


I'd wager a guess the vintage collectors are also trying to cash in.

Would you think twice as a consignor if 6 other competing cards listed in the same auction. No, you are trying to bail out at the top!


It's ludicrous, and I'm not open to opinion otherwise!

[Mike D.]

I think any time we paint with a wide brush, we tend to miss a lot.

I mean, do I feel bad that some of the people who were having fistfights in Walmart and Target over retail blasters to flip online have been forced to move on? No, not sorry to see them go. But I have to imagine that they are a "loud minority" of the hobby, not the norm.

Unless you're rich or like very cheap cards, money is usually at of some concern, even if it's just "I need to stay within my entertainment budget on buying cards".

[homerunhitter]

I likey!!!!

[Chicosbailbonds]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

There are 15 1933 goudey Ruths in the current REA auction.


FIFTEEN RUTHS, and I think 7 1951 bowman Mantle RCs.


I'd wager a guess the vintage collectors are also trying to cash in.

Would you think twice as a consignor if 6 other competing cards listed in the same auction. No, you are trying to bail out at the top!


It's ludicrous, and I'm not open to opinion otherwise!

Could be a number of reasons for people selling those - mainly vintage collectors dying off and these were inherited. I go on some of the discord channels and it’s chockfull of people who buy up everything at Walmart because they heard they could flip it for a lot. All they care is grading for a 10 and making a big score on a reds prospect that will never make a impact in the majors. For us master set collectors, it’s been a tough three years.

[Chicosbailbonds]

There is a lot of new sellers on eBay that have no problem cancelling a order if they didn’t get the price they thought they would.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

...being the coolest modern card 'bro is like being the toughest muppet.

Now, that's funny. You should try your hand at stand-up comedy some day.

[gonefishin]

The sports card market is interesting. It draws in all types from all walks of life. Regardless of how one compartmentalizes themselves, and others, i.e. "collector", "investor", "flipper", etc. the market welcomes all. The market doesn't care what you do with your card; sell it, burn it, lose it, collect it, etc. The market only cares about selling cards both now and in the future.

I enjoy listening to anyone that collects, buys, sells, trades or has anything to do with cards. The only exception is that what they do is legal and ethical. I try not to criticize anyone for what they do with their cards - the cards belong to them. Simply because I have collected cards for 60+ years doesn't mean that people who are new to collecting are doing anything wrong or bad. Maybe they're just doing things different than me. Maybe their interest and methods of selling cards are why my 1957 common is now worth $10 rather than $1. Or, maybe they're the reason my 1957 common is now worth $1 rather than $10.

I do fail to understand how some people (not all) seem to be happy when an "Investor" "Flipper" loses thousands of dollars when they sell a modern card that they purchased hoping to resell later and make a little money. I personally see no enjoyment in that. I also don't understand when some people (not all) are absolutely elated when they see a 52 Mantle sell for 5M+. I personally see no enjoyment in that. However, to each his/her own.

I do think that we would all be better off if we simply exchanged information with one another on what we collect, why we collect, and enjoy the fellowship of collecting. I look through the different categories of this site just to get a feel of how a particular category is doing and what is new.

If there was an INVESTOR section or a FLIPPER section on this site, I would check it out also! When no one else was looking - I bet you would too!

[ALR-bishop]

Gone---can not speak for others but when a modern limited edition card loses value I am only happy for me if I did not spend a lot for one myself. Like wise if the 52 Mantle or any card I do have goes up in value I am happy about that too. Has nothing to do with the misfortune or fortune of others

Been collecting since 1957, so like you enjoy the hobby a lot

[Mike D.]

The one that bugs me is the people who buy out the retail stuff just to try to flip it online. Retail is where the casual and new collector come from.

I'd imagine that the majority of us wouldn't be here if someone bought out all the available retail packs when we were kids.

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

The sports card market is interesting. It draws in all types from all walks of life. Regardless of how one compartmentalizes themselves, and others, i.e. "collector", "investor", "flipper", etc. the market welcomes all. The market doesn't care what you do with your card; sell it, burn it, lose it, collect it, etc. The market only cares about selling cards both now and in the future.

I enjoy listening to anyone that collects, buys, sells, trades or has anything to do with cards. The only exception is that what they do is legal and ethical. I try not to criticize anyone for what they do with their cards - the cards belong to them. Simply because I have collected cards for 60+ years doesn't mean that people who are new to collecting are doing anything wrong or bad. Maybe they're just doing things different than me. Maybe their interest and methods of selling cards are why my 1957 common is now worth $10 rather than $1. Or, maybe they're the reason my 1957 common is now worth $1 rather than $10.

I do fail to understand how some people (not all) seem to be happy when an "Investor" "Flipper" loses thousands of dollars when they sell a modern card that they purchased hoping to resell later and make a little money. I personally see no enjoyment in that. I also don't understand when some people (not all) are absolutely elated when they see a 52 Mantle sell for 5M+. I personally see no enjoyment in that. However, to each his/her own.

I do think that we would all be better off if we simply exchanged information with one another on what we collect, why we collect, and enjoy the fellowship of collecting. I look through the different categories of this site just to get a feel of how a particular category is doing and what is new.

If there was an INVESTOR section or a FLIPPER section on this site, I would check it out also! When no one else was looking - I bet you would too!

I will freely admit that I do find it amusing to see huge modern breaks that don't yield any big money cards. Jabs did one not too long ago that was a 2011 Topps Update, looking for the Trout. From opening Topps boxes of that era, I knew he'd get one because a box gets you a complete series. But they went down to mid-way in the final pack before pulling the Trout, and I was really rooting for it to not be there.

Why? It isn't a personal thing, I just feel that some very bad influences are damaging this hobby and any chance to burst some bubbles is appreciated.

Does it make me mean or immature? I don't think so. Just the way I feel.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Hi Bert,

I see your posting on the modern thread with your question. To answer your question, no, the modern world is all about turn and burn, hype, etc. it's tantamount to walking in a whorehouse and asking "aren't there any nice girls here?".

I think what you're looking for are true collectors, you'll find them in pre war and they have been around a long time, they care about integrity, honesty, and commitment. While money is a factor it's way down on the list of what's important. It's an awesome community that the modern guys have no skill set to engage with.

Best of luck and success.

I disagree Phil. A prewar whorehouse is populated with a lot of wrinkles, worn corners, callouses, poorly centered breasts, a lack of registration, numerous surgical variations and unscheduled loss of fluids from several orifices. Authenticity is a huge problem as well.

I seriously doubt that they are a hotbed for collectors, even for those with impaired vision.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

...and unscheduled loss of fluids from several orifices...

Is that what happens when an owner doesn't properly care for their, "undisclosed location filled with non-fungibles?"

[ALR-bishop]

Frank... how did you get so knowledgeable about vintage whorehouse occupants ?

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Is that what happens when an owner doesn't properly care for their, "undisclosed location filled with non-fungibles?"

That Depends, Eric.

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Frank... how did you get so knowledgeable about vintage whorehouse occupants ?

The route to the emergency room from the senior brothel is frequently used.

[mrmopar]

I am going to wager a guess, with a little bit of my own feelings mixed in here.
"We" probably see these guys as inflating the market simply to make a buck.
People tend to follow the leader, so if enough hype is created, they will all eventually follow. Prospectors start buying and fighting each other for the same new cards, inflating the prices. This prices out people who just want to complete a set, team set or maybe just want to collect a specific player. Maybe they can't afford or won't tolerate the risk and just want a shot at buying a new player for the no-name pricing and actually have a chance to own a Clayton Kershaw or Mookie Betts w/o having had to pay super hype prices BEFORE they became stars, because for every one of them, there are many more failed prospects who never fulfill their potential.

Yes, it pisses me off that every new Dodger prospect autograph card seems to start out ridiculously high, JUST IN CASE he makes it big. I collect Dodger autographs, so I guess if I want to play that game, I have to expect it. I don't collect them in hopes they will take off though, I am trying to maintain a running collection of anyone who makes an appearance with the team no matter their status in the end. I am just as willing to buy a Greg Miller or Koyie Hill as I am a Walker Buehler or Cody Bellinger, but I also don't want to pay future HOF pricing for EVERYONE. But it is still frustrating that everyone is chasing these new cards and paying stupid money just to have the chance to flip them for even more money. it's risky often times, but people still do it and I guess watching someone price you out of a card only to have it become worthless is somewhat satisfying, kind of like an "I told you so".

Even to this day, I can't believe players like Yasiel Puig's autographs still sell so strongly, after the utterly average 7 year, 1X AS player has been out of the game for 3 years already. It's all this prospecting BS and the ruins it leaves behind, because nobody wants to lose all of the $400 they paid for one, even though they'll never come close and it now should be a $5 card. So they sit unsold at bloated prices on principal, yet people still beat each other up when one comes available at a low auction price because they want/need one for whatever reason and can't find them otherwise as people are still hoarding those they took a bath on.

.

Originally Posted by gonefishin

I do fail to understand how some people (not all) seem to be happy when an "Investor" "Flipper" loses thousands of dollars when they sell a modern card that they purchased hoping to resell later and make a little money. I personally see no enjoyment in that.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I disagree Phil. A prewar whorehouse is populated with a lot of wrinkles, worn corners, callouses, poorly centered breasts, a lack of registration, numerous surgical variations and unscheduled loss of fluids from several orifices. Authenticity is a huge problem as well.

I seriously doubt that they are a hotbed for collectors, even for those with impaired vision.

Frank, as my kindred spirit, we've obviously both spent some time at an undisclosed location on the outskirts of Elko NV, never at the same time which I will eternally regret...

Ah Marie, I'll think of you on my deathbed...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Frank, as my kindred spirit, we've obviously both spent some time at an undisclosed location on the outskirts of Elko NV, never at the same time which I will eternally regret...

Ah Marie, I'll think of you on my deathbed...

If my man Frank was there, it was only because he was the surgeon on call.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by mrmopar

...........

Even to this day, I can't believe players like Yasiel Puig's autographs still sell so strongly, after the utterly average 7 year, 1X AS player has been out of the game for 3 years already. It's all this prospecting BS and the ruins it leaves behind, because nobody wants to lose all of the $400 they paid for one, even though they'll never come close and it now should be a $5 card. So they sit unsold at bloated prices on principal, yet people still beat each other up when one comes available at a low auction price because they want/need one for whatever reason and can't find them otherwise as people are still hoarding those they took a bath on.

.

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Frank, as my kindred spirit, we've obviously both spent some time at an undisclosed location on the outskirts of Elko NV, never at the same time which I will eternally regret...

Ah Marie, I'll think of you on my deathbed...

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If my man Frank was there, it was only because he was the surgeon on call.

It should surprise no one that I actually got my Puig autograph in Elko, Nevada, and that I know real reason Yasiel's career was abbreviated. However I must let you imagine the rest of the story due to HIPAA regulations. Let's just say he wasn't suited for the prewar game in Elko.