Latest Pickups

[G1911]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I was looking at stats on boxerlist.com for Russell and Laughery. They both beat Mellody. The stats on boxerlist are different than the stats on the T218. Boxerlist does not show lots of no decisions. May be worth it's own thread at some point.

Congrats on another Tolstoi!

My understanding from my readings is that the issue is that some jurisdictions, like New York and Philadelphia, had repressive rules on boxing that essentially banned 'real' fights. Thus, every fight was a No Decision in these places because they were 'exhibitions' and there was no winner allowed to be formally named. 4, 6, 10 and 12 rounds seems to be the common round counts used for these bouts, though a lot of the newspapers seem to make clear that the boxers fought just as hard as in 'fully authorized' fights and they were not like the actual exhibitions put on by retired boxers to demonstrate technique. Boxrec and others try to use Newspaper decisions to catalog wins and losses, but this is a modern project.

If I am incorrect, someone please clarify and correct what I have said. I'm sure others know more fully.

[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks for explaining the records, that makes sense.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by G1911

Congrats on another Tolstoi!

My understanding from my readings is that the issue is that some jurisdictions, like New York and Philadelphia, had repressive rules on boxing that essentially banned 'real' fights. Thus, every fight was a No Decision in these places because they were 'exhibitions' and there was no winner allowed to be formally named. 4, 6, 10 and 12 rounds seems to be the common round counts used for these bouts, though a lot of the newspapers seem to make clear that the boxers fought just as hard as in 'fully authorized' fights and they were not like the actual exhibitions put on by retired boxers to demonstrate technique. Boxrec and others try to use Newspaper decisions to catalog wins and losses, but this is a modern project.

If I am incorrect, someone please clarify and correct what I have said. I'm sure others know more fully.

Yeah, pretty spot on.

One of the funniest things I ever saw were those signed T218’s that surfaced a few years ago with inscriptions of fight records that could only have been culled from Boxrec and never existed before internet data entry existed.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Yeah, pretty spot on.

One of the funniest things I ever saw were those signed T218’s that surfaced a few years ago with inscriptions of fight records that could only have been culled from Boxrec and never existed before internet data entry existed.

Thanks for checking me.

That was a fun saga, the most low effort fakes I have ever seen. The seller was a real piece of work; he responded to my report that his cards were fake with an invective filled rant so bad I'm surprised he didn't get banned by eBay. Still keep my eyes peeled for a T218 signature that might actually be real; never seen one. Abel Kiviat died in 1991 and several of the guys lived into the 70's. A Coulon or something may exist out there somewhere.

[D. Bergin]

Just got these in. I think the Jeffries Ogden's cards are pretty under-rated. Pretty sure they're his 1st Non-cabinet card issues.

[G1911]

The black Ogdens issues are awesome. I'm slowly building the boxing subsets after a former member here got me more into the British tobacco cards. I buy lots of the non-sports subjects when I see them cheap; one could make a wonderful collection covering everything from politics to history to zoology to sports to architecture to the stage just from these issues. Nice pickups

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by G1911

The black Ogdens issues are awesome. I'm slowly building the boxing subsets after a former member here got me more into the British tobacco cards. I buy lots of the non-sports subjects when I see them cheap; one could make a wonderful collection covering everything from politics to history to zoology to sports to architecture to the stage just from these issues. Nice pickups

Yeah, the various Ogdens black border issues and the Guinea Gold stuff is absolutely fascinating...and they are vast in their topics.

I've always liked them because they are a very early photographic tobacco issue, and back when I was buying lots of them 20+ years ago, they were absolutely dirt cheap.

Don't even know what I did with most of them, probably got bored with them and sold most of them off years ago (for dirt cheap again), but a part of me wished I kept them around and hoarded more of them, just out of curiosity.

There's a decent article on the "General Interest Series" on the Pre-War Cards site here:

https://prewarcards.com/2019/11/07/o...ack-and-field/

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Just got these in. I think the Jeffries Ogden's cards are pretty under-rated. Pretty sure they're his 1st Non-cabinet card issues.

I've yet to find an earlier non-cabinet card.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I've yet to find an earlier non-cabinet card.

Thanks Adam.

[Exhibitman]

Yeah, when I boiled down my black bordered Ogdens cards to one of each series or issue, I made sure to keep a Jeffries. Still need a Heroes of the Ring type (I think; gotta check).