Would you buy a high end (10k) raw card?

parkplace33 · #1 08-23-2022, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yanksfan09

Depends on a lot of things. Can you view it in person and check it very close? if not, depends on who seller is and how clear of pictures you can get. What you think expected value is if graded or authentic?

If it was an exceedingly rare card I'd be way more inclined as opposed to an easy to find type of card.

Added to the post, you can view in person and examine.

iwantitiwinit · #2 08-23-2022, 09:40 AM

Absolutely not. Why would anyone sell something that is genuine and unaltered in raw form when they could profit significantly more if it's graded. There are no free lunches!!

thatkidfromjerrymaguire · #3 08-23-2022, 09:50 AM

Unless I knew the seller personally and they could vouch for the ownership history and that it wasn't altered, then no, I wouldn't do it.

I'm making assumptions, but my guess would be that seller may have purchased it in an "authentic" slab, and cracked it out because it has good eye appeal.

Hence, he can only guarantee it's authentic and nothing else.

1952boyntoncollector · #4 08-23-2022, 09:55 AM

would you invest in a place that promises you 10% returns?

basically you can always get away with one buy being legit..but in the long run if you do 10 of them..you are going to lose in the long run

why is there always some key card in some KSA or other strange holder when can be in a PSA holder.

Now for low end cards, the costs of grading are prohibitive and i can understand huge discounts versus graded ones

Carter08 · #5 08-23-2022, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatkidfromjerrymaguire

Unless I knew the seller personally and they could vouch for the ownership history and that it wasn't altered, then no, I wouldn't do it.

I'm making assumptions, but my guess would be that seller may have purchased it in an "authentic" slab, and cracked it out because it has good eye appeal.

Hence, he can only guarantee it's authentic and nothing else.

This would be my fear as well. If you�re positive it�s at least authentic and the price of the raw is less than what authentics go for, that could be an option.

brianp-beme · #6 08-23-2022, 10:08 AM

In general I have confidence in buying raw cards with examination, even ones online. What I don't have confidence in is my bank account. At that level, which I have never come close to even considering a purchase, I would question everything my eyes and experience would be telling my brain.

I think my hands would also be shaking, and I would possibly end up damaging the card.

Brian

chadeast · #7 08-23-2022, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carter08

This would be my fear as well. If you�re positive it�s at least authentic and the price of the raw is less than what authentics go for, that could be an option.

This is where I am as well. I would buy it if it was being sold for the going price of Authentics but probably not much more than that. Also agree that I would have to view and handle the card in person first.

53toppscollector · #8 08-23-2022, 10:39 AM

The only real answer here is "it depends" and it really does, on a lot of factors.

terjung · #9 08-23-2022, 11:05 AM

Yes and I have done it. I knew the issue very well and did it from scans. The owner was a respected guy in the hobby. So, that helped in giving me confidence that he had the card in hand. I should note that in this case, the card was rare enough that its value was not based on its technical grade (which was pretty low).

As for a card where the difference in grade would amount to the difference between $1k and $10k for example, I'd be much more tentative.

soxinseven · #10 08-23-2022, 11:07 AM

I definitely would but there has to be some guidelines. I would prefer the transaction in person or from a known/reputable hobby person if not in person. The value would have to be in the A/1 range or the card would have to come with a numeric guarantee based on a value of a perceived higher grade.

toledo_mudhen · #11 08-23-2022, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Absolutely not. Why would anyone sell something that is genuine and unaltered in raw form when they could profit significantly more if it's graded. There are no free lunches!!

I agree - Every single high dollar card I have has been slabbed and graded. "High Dollar" means different things to different people. For me high dollar probably starts at $500. Slabs tend to give me a sense of "better protection" (maybe a false sense?) so the grade to me isnt quite as important as the protection and the bonus of a "better valuation".

toledo_mudhen · #12 08-23-2022, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Absolutely not. Why would anyone sell something that is genuine and unaltered in raw form when they could profit significantly more if it's graded. There are no free lunches!!

I agree - Every single high dollar card I have has been slabbed and graded. "High Dollar" means different things to different people. For me high dollar probably starts at $500. Slabs tend to give me a sense of "better protection" (maybe a false sense?) so the grade to me isnt quite as important as the protection.

fkm_bky · #13 08-23-2022, 10:11 AM

Nope...not even for a moment, if I'm investing that much. I'd need a guarantee from TPG or that it will grade relatively accordingly to condition from the seller or I can return it.

Bill

ullmandds · #14 08-23-2022, 10:21 AM

It depends�I might? Early on during the pandemic I spent almost 40k on raw cards off eBay. It turned out just fine for me.

MikeGarcia · #15 08-23-2022, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds

It depends�I might? Early on during the pandemic I spent almost 40k on raw cards off eBay. It turned out just fine for me.

; Don Pedro -- damnnnn-- ; you owe all of us on here a helluva thread and some kickbutt pictures. I personally will buy you a hot dog and a diet Pepsi at the next National . . Gracias , amigo.

..PS , I want to show your post to TheWidowGarcia and point to it and proclaim loudly " SEE !! ",..ummm , yeah... but I prolly won't. MG54

..

G1911 · #16 08-23-2022, 01:50 PM

The caveat that you may hold it and examine in person means there is no reason not too. I am certainly fallible and may make a mistake, but I see no evidence PSA and SGC make less mistakes than I do. I will trust my detailed examination over some guy at PSA looking at it for 30 seconds.

I have paid $10K for a batch of 5 raw cards without getting to exam them in person. Worked out just fine. Would do it again. The amount of cards I would pay $10K for is very, very small. There's only 1 or 2. Being raw wouldn't be an obstacle.

More generally, I think a lot of it would depend on the item. A nice condition card of a very common commodity item raises more red flags raw than an obscure/extremely rare card for which the condition is not of much concern. Getting to exam in hand though would waive this doubt for me.

MVSNYC · #17 08-23-2022, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fkm_bky

Nope...not even for a moment, if I'm investing that much. I'd need a guarantee from TPG or that it will grade relatively accordingly to condition from the seller or I can return it.

Bill

This.

japhi · #18 08-23-2022, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Absolutely not. Why would anyone sell something that is genuine and unaltered in raw form when they could profit significantly more if it's graded. There are no free lunches!!

This attitude has made a lot of people a lot of money the past decade. I mean if every real/unaltered high value card was already graded there would be no more being graded. Yet we have new to the hobby, first time graded, big deal cards hitting all the time.

I respect your position but when did we get so lazy as hobbyists that we can't spot alterations ourselves, and what have the TPG's done lately to prove that they can?

FWIW I'm talking about cards that we know and collect. I feel very confident in buying raw, OPC vintage hockey for instance. I wouldn't feel so comfortable buying pre-war BB without a ton of research.

BobbyStrawberry · #19 08-23-2022, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Absolutely not. Why would anyone sell something that is genuine and unaltered in raw form when they could profit significantly more if it's graded. There are no free lunches!!

This is why I probably wouldn't do it, although who the seller is would be a factor as well

bmattioli · #20 08-23-2022, 06:24 PM

Hell NO.. Nuff said..

Johnny630 · #21 08-23-2022, 06:44 PM

How about a $10,000 raw vintage unopened pack ?

ValKehl · #22 08-23-2022, 09:08 PM

Yes, under the right circumstances, including that I know the seller to be of high integrity.

rhettyeakley · #23 08-23-2022, 09:19 PM

Yes I would. I trust my own determination of the card more than any grading company.

darwinbulldog · #24 08-24-2022, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny630

How about a $10,000 raw vintage unopened pack ?

That's gonna be a no from me, dog. I trust my ability to judge the legitimacy of a card from any of the sets I collect, but I don't know any more than my kids or my parents do about how to tell if a pack has been tampered with.

Popcorn · #25 08-24-2022, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

That's gonna be a no from me, dog. I trust my ability to judge the legitimacy of a card from any of the sets I collect, but I don't know any more than my kids or my parents do about how to tell if a pack has been tampered with.

Got super lucky with a unopened 52 topps pack years ago for $5,000. Psa slabbed it but my dumb ass sold it after and it goes for 5x now

yanksfan09 · #26 08-23-2022, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Added to the post, you can view in person and examine.

It would depend on the buyers familiarity with the particular issue, if they feel they can determine fakes, alterations etc..., and how much of a discount they feel they're getting as opposed to buying a graded one. Unless it was a rare card or issue I knew very well and felt I was getting a nice deal from a seller I was comfortable with I probably would not. But under right set of circumstances I may bite, and more so if it was a rare issue.

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