Do you consider this to be a fraudulent listing by Heritage?

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Well, they are using phrases like this:

"Encapsulated PSA Authentic with a blue marker signature that is certified PSA/DNA Authentic Auto."

So that seems to be saying more than one thing has been authenticated.

And they also say:

"...there are still a small number of O-Pee-Chee brand unopened packs available and ours is set apart from others for two reasons..."

That pretty clearly says this is an O-Pee-Chee brand unopened pack to me.

Pretty much agree with Peter here and while this is stupid, I don’t see how in any way it’s fraudulent. Can you more clearly state your conspiracy?

A. Pack is unopened.
B. It’s a wax pack so you can see the back card which is while likely wax stained, a Gretzky Rc.
C. They look to have not gone though the effort to have Wayne sign the pack but rather removed a sticker auto from an insert card and stuck it to the pack. It’s a legit auto, just stupid; and PSA says it’s real.

So yes it’s dumb, but where is the fraud? It says clearly the card is the back card, where is your proof of reseal as that seems to be the only insinuation as the listing is very clear. I have yet to see a wax wrapper without an identifiable back card (which is usually stained unless you are lucky with some old pantyhose to clean it up).

Edit- ok, I think I figured out your line of thinking and I guess there is a bit of a point. They are stating that the pack is sealed and there is no way to have both of those graded at the same time. Point taken. Because the sticker auto is added they can only grade that much like a cut.

While creatively worded, I don’t see any actual language stating the pack is graded. It’s still a dumb item, but if this works stay tuned for more.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Pretty much agree with Peter here and while this is stupid, I don’t see how in any way it’s fraudulent. Can you more clearly state your conspiracy?

A. Pack is unopened.
B. It’s a wax pack so you can see the back card which is while likely wax stained, a Gretzky Rc.
C. They look to have not gone though the effort to have Wayne sign the pack but rather removed a sticker auto from an insert card and stuck it to the pack. It’s a legit auto, just stupid; and PSA says it’s real.

My issue is that it is not a certified unopened pack, (it almost certainly is not a legitimately unopened pack, if so it would have been certified as such), and the contents, including the Gretzky on back, are in no way certified or even known as being authentic. That's all.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

My issue is that it is not a certified unopened pack, (it almost certainly is not a legitimately unopened pack, if so it would have been certified as such), and the contents, including the Gretzky on back, are in no way certified or even known as being authentic. That's all.

Sorry, I got that after thinking on it a bit. There definitely is faith in it for a buyer but the statement that if it was unopened it would be certified is false. There can be no other grade as it is a adulterated pack with the sticker. If you took a T206 Cobb and glued a cut signature to the card they would only place the title “trading card” with the signature authentication.

If the pack was signed physically and not a sticker added, you might have been able to get an “authentic” grade on the pack but I think it would take a bit of an ask.

You can only get combo card/sig grades on factory produced items to my knowledge.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Sorry, I got that after thinking on it a bit. There definitely is faith in it for a buyer but the statement that if it was unopened it would be certified is false. There can be no other grade as it is a adulterated pack with the sticker. If you took a T206 Cobb and glued a cut signature to the card they would only place the title “trading card” with the signature authentication.

If the pack was signed physically and not a sticker added, you might have been able to get an “authentic” grade on the pack but I think it would take a bit of an ask.

You can only get combo card/sig grades on factory produced items to my knowledge.

I do believe in my statement that if it was a true unopened pack it would be certified...that's where the actual and only value lies, a 1979 OPC (or Topps) pack with a Gretzky RC showing. A clear sticker with a Gretzky auto on it has maybe $200 worth of value if you're lucky. A legit unopened pack with a Gretzky RC showing is probably a $20k-$50k item??? And, in addition, we're to believe someone has both an OPC pack and a Topps pack like this for offer in this auction, and then also more on tap for upcoming auctions? That reeks of absolute nonsense to me...and apparently only to me, lol.

If this pack was legit, it would almost be the hockey equivalent of taking a '52 Topps unopened pack with Mantle showing, putting a clear autographed sticker on it, and having PSA certify only that the autograph on the sticker is genuine, no...one...would...ever...do...that.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

I do believe in my statement that if it was a true unopened pack it would be certified...that's where the actual and only value lies, a 1979 OPC (or Topps) pack with a Gretzky RC showing. A clear sticker with a Gretzky auto on it has maybe $200 worth of value if you're lucky. A legit unopened pack with a Gretzky RC showing is probably a $20k-$50k item??? And, in addition, we're to believe someone has both an OPC pack and a Topps pack like this for offer in this auction, and then also more on tap for upcoming auctions? That reeks of absolute nonsense to me...and apparently only to me, lol.

If this pack was legit, it would almost be the hockey equivalent of taking a '52 Topps unopened pack with Mantle showing, putting a clear autographed sticker on it, and having PSA certify only that the autograph on the sticker is genuine, no...one...would...ever...do...that.

Oh I think this is a trial run, but yes it is certainly quite possible the card in the pack is fake and the pack resealed. I am just stating that the catch 22 is that the pack is basically ungradable.

I would wager that I am even likely wrong that it would be accepted by PSA for pack grading at all. The Topps Rookie Premiere scandal that absolutely killed them in 2007-8 as they graded an absolute ton of backdoored cards with fake signatures as “authentic” and stated it happened as they were only grading the cards themselves and not the signature would likely have them stating that without removing the sticker they would refuse to grade just the pack.

Funny thing is that this submitter flipped that on its head.

Psa did actually take a safe route by only putting “sticker” on this.

[JustinD]

Out of curiosity, as you said this was the 3rd you’ve seen, what were the prices reached on the others? I did not see one in a complete d search and think someone would be nuts to spend real dollars like you mentioned on this.

I am sure they are out there…”a fool and his money”.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Out of curiosity, as you said this was the 3rd you’ve seen, what were the prices reached on the others? I did not see one in a complete d search and think someone would be nuts to spend real dollars like you mentioned on this.

I am sure they are out there…”a fool and his money”.

There are two active on Heritage that end Sunday (this OPC and a Topps) and one upcoming in September...so no realized prices yet. If people want to spend thousands on a fantasy pack, so be it...but make it clear that's what it is (and of course I don't know with literal 100% certainty this is a fantasy pack...but come on, of course it is). I wonder if other auction houses passed on these.

I'm gonna try and be over it now. I appreciate everyone's input and thoughts.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

I do believe in my statement that if it was a true unopened pack it would be certified...that's where the actual and only value lies, a 1979 OPC (or Topps) pack with a Gretzky RC showing. A clear sticker with a Gretzky auto on it has maybe $200 worth of value if you're lucky. A legit unopened pack with a Gretzky RC showing is probably a $20k-$50k item??? And, in addition, we're to believe someone has both an OPC pack and a Topps pack like this for offer in this auction, and then also more on tap for upcoming auctions? That reeks of absolute nonsense to me...and apparently only to me, lol.

If this pack was legit, it would almost be the hockey equivalent of taking a '52 Topps unopened pack with Mantle showing, putting a clear autographed sticker on it, and having PSA certify only that the autograph on the sticker is genuine, no...one...would...ever...do...that.

A pack with Gretzky showing would be that much? I should go check my pack and see whos on the back.