SGC Grading Turnarounds

hockeyhockey · #1 08-26-2022, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Only thing that SGC offers over PSA at this point is fast turnaround times and much cheaper cost per card. Neither of which are enticing to me. Selling an under graded SGC card for a strong price is virtually impossible.
.

and that's not even the case anymore. PSA value is $30. i used SGC a few times and have nothing bad to say about their customer service, but if i'm choosing between the 2 with no cost difference and no 16 month turnaround, it's an easy choice with PSA. at least for me.

ClementeFanOh · #2 08-26-2022, 08:51 PM

Peter- and I think you're behaving as doggedly as the people you've
criticized for being "overly concerned" with turnaround times, or for
"overemphasizing" those times. After all, you are most certainly a
participant in the very event you are condemning. You are complaining
about the verbal tennis match while being a continuing part of it. And I'll still
say that getting cards back in a timely manner is a benefit, and openly
question those who can't (or won't, more probably) admit it.

Trent King

Peter_Spaeth · #3 08-26-2022, 09:36 PM

My point which seems lost on you in all your verbal sparring is that fast turnaround doesn't do one much good or is overrated if the cards are undergraded. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play kinda thing. How was your sub, Trent? Well, every card was too low by 1 to 2 grades, but it came back in two weeks!!!! I somehow doubt that result would thrill you.

RCFire82 · #4 08-26-2022, 09:44 PM

Crazy turnaround times, exorbitant fees, inconsistencies and "favors" for certian submitters. All this makes me appreciate not being on the business side of the hobby. My only concern with grading is not damaging the card when cracking the case.

Side note. Peter and Trent...have enjoyed following some of your recent debates. Both pationate about your respective position on subjects.

Lorewalker · #5 08-27-2022, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyhockey

and that's not even the case anymore. PSA value is $30. i used SGC a few times and have nothing bad to say about their customer service, but if i'm choosing between the 2 with no cost difference and no 16 month turnaround, it's an easy choice with PSA. at least for me.

True that PSA has a $30 service level but it does not allow for cards that are valued up to $1,500 like SGC permits. You have to pay $100 at PSA for cards valued at $1,500 and they will take 30 business days.

ClementeFanOh · #6 08-27-2022, 06:37 AM

PeterSpaeth- yesterday I got 2 cool cards in the mail, bought a third, and
traded for 2 more. THAT is the fun part of the hobby, and I'll continue it
today. So, my reply here will be succinct...

I have consistently held that quick turnaround times (still 3+ weeks) are
a boon to the seller/hobbyist, and I'm stunned it gets so much backlash. The
devil I'm choosing currently includes inexplicably harsh grades on vintage.
I find it odd that those collectors who pay (outrageously in many cases) for
a service, are so quick to forgive molasses-like return of cards by PSA.
Conversely, there are people who think I'm in the wrong. The point? The topic
has legs, which is why people keep coming back to it! We are all in search of
a magic grader who grades every card fairly, gets them back while we are
still alive, and doesn't extort us in the meantime. Until that time, there WILL
be debate. Trent King

Tyruscobb · #7 08-27-2022, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

PeterSpaeth- yesterday I got 2 cool cards in the mail, bought a third, and
traded for 2 more. THAT is the fun part of the hobby, and I'll continue it
today. So, my reply here will be succinct...

I have consistently held that quick turnaround times (still 3+ weeks) are
a boon to the seller/hobbyist, and I'm stunned it gets so much backlash. The
devil I'm choosing currently includes inexplicably harsh grades on vintage.
I find it odd that those collectors who pay (outrageously in many cases) for
a service, are so quick to forgive molasses-like return of cards by PSA.
Conversely, there are people who think I'm in the wrong. The point? The topic
has legs, which is why people keep coming back to it! We are all in search of
a magic grader who grades every card fairly, gets them back while we are
still alive, and doesn't extort us in the meantime. Until that time, there WILL
be debate. Trent King

Sometimes it seems like Peter likes to argue just to argue. I bet he�d argue with a stump.

Yoda · #8 08-27-2022, 11:58 AM

What I wonder is what with the huge number of new graders hired by the TPG's, how are they trained, how are the work flows organized and perhaps how are remunerated? Consistency is the benchmark of grading and there seems to be a paradigm shift towards much tougher grading by SGC. If so, I believe their whole business model becomes flawed.
And I agree with Peter, I would rather be patient to receive my T206 Brown, knowing it has been properly graded and receives a fair 4 rather than a 2.5 with an expeditious return.

Lorewalker · #9 08-27-2022, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

What I wonder is what with the huge number of new graders hired by the TPG's, how are they trained, how are the work flows organized and perhaps how are remunerated? Consistency is the benchmark of grading and there seems to be a paradigm shift towards much tougher grading by SGC. If so, I believe their whole business model becomes flawed.
And I agree with Peter, I would rather be patient to receive my T206 Brown, knowing it has been properly graded and receives a fair 4 rather than a 2.5 with an expeditious return.

The harsh grading is not just at SGC but PSA as well. PSA has 2 to 3 times as many graders as SGC has. Tricky to get everyone up to speed and be on the same exact page with regards to grading. SGC has always been the more reliable and consistent grader between the two. And they still are.

No clue what their training is but it is easy to conclude that the harsh assessments coming out of both companies is indicative of a management decision to error on the side of conservatism. Good for business too since there is a much better chance a 7 in a 5 holder is coming back for another look as opposed to a 5 in a 7 holder.

Whatever the case is both are denying it and doing absolutely nothing to address it internally. Why should they? Most are submitting anyway knowing the outcome.

Peter_Spaeth · #10 08-27-2022, 01:15 PM

The good news about the harsh grading is, if you're mostly a buyer, there are some great undergraded cards out there. 6 is the new 7 in many cases or even the new 8.

cammb · #11 08-29-2022, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

What I wonder is what with the huge number of new graders hired by the TPG's, how are they trained, how are the work flows organized and perhaps how are remunerated? Consistency is the benchmark of grading and there seems to be a paradigm shift towards much tougher grading by SGC. If so, I believe their whole business model becomes flawed.
And I agree with Peter, I would rather be patient to receive my T206 Brown, knowing it has been properly graded and receives a fair 4 rather than a 2.5 with an expeditious return.

You mean if you wait longer you will get the grade you want?

Yoda · #12 08-29-2022, 01:23 PM

Not at all, the grader will grade the card as he sees it or has been instructed to see it. My point was I am willing to wait for my card within reason rather than have my expensive pre-war item rushed through the grading cycle to meet management expectations about turnaround times.

hockeyhockey · #13 08-27-2022, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

True that PSA has a $30 service level but it does not allow for cards that are valued up to $1,500 like SGC permits. You have to pay $100 at PSA for cards valued at $1,500 and they will take 30 business days.

ahh yes, i guess i never had to worry about that since my collection isn't that high end. maybe one day i'll find that joe jackson

babraham · #14 08-31-2022, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

True that PSA has a $30 service level but it does not allow for cards that are valued up to $1,500 like SGC permits. You have to pay $100 at PSA for cards valued at $1,500 and they will take 30 business days.

My last $100 "regular" submission from PSA earlier this month had this timeline:

Fri 8/12: dropped off at USPS
Mon 8/15: arrived at PSA
Tues 8/16: entered at PSA
Tues 8/23: shipped from PSA
Thurs 8/25: delivered to my house

I was thrilled with the turnaround time (much quicker than I expected), and the card got the grade that I was anticipating.

bobbyw8469 · #15 08-31-2022, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babraham

My last $100 "regular" submission from PSA earlier this month had this timeline:

Fri 8/12: dropped off at USPS
Mon 8/15: arrived at PSA
Tues 8/16: entered at PSA
Tues 8/23: shipped from PSA
Thurs 8/25: delivered to my house

I was thrilled with the turnaround time (much quicker than I expected), and the card got the grade that I was anticipating.

But you had to pay $100 per card. Meanwhile, $10 per card orders sit languishing for a year and a half.

babraham · #16 08-31-2022, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

But you had to pay $100 per card. Meanwhile, $10 per card orders sit languishing for a year and a half.

It was only one card.

It seems like all of their levels are getting quicker leadtimes...hopefully they can get thru their backlog of older/cheaper submissions and start offering lowered pricing tiers again.

raulus · #17 09-01-2022, 10:42 AM

PSA is quoting these turnaround times:

SERVICE LEVEL ESTIMATED TURNAROUND TIME*
(in calendar days)

Premium + 3 Days
Walk-Through 3 Days
Super Express 7 Days
Express 14 Days
Regular 15-30 Days
Economy 45-90 Days
Value** 90-120 Days
Reholder 90 Days

My experience is that these are a little bit aspirational. At the same time, there's an element of randomness. I have an economy submission for 5 items that they entered on 5/4 that is very close to being done (2nd QC check), so it's at about 120 days, which isn't toooooo far over their estimate. And I have a value submission for 47 items entered on 6/28 that is also at 2nd QC check, which is just over 60 days, which is obviously well under their estimate. At the same time, the economy submission is for a vintage regional issue with very low pop counts, and the value submission is for mainline cards from the junk wax era. So perhaps that's part of the magic.

In some ways, it seems like they must have a great big pile that any given grader is working off of, and when they finish working on one submission, then they close their eyes and randomly grab one off of the pile. Maybe the piles are sorted based on submission level so that the higher submission levels have a higher probability of getting picked. If your submission gets picked up today by a grader when they're working through the pile, then you get lucky. And if it doesn't get picked up, then it might languish for weeks or months until they get to it.

Update:

Since writing this post this morning, my economy submission for 5 items that was entered into the system on 5/4 has been completed. So almost exactly 120 days by my count. And I'm even reasonably happy with my grades!

jchcollins · #18 09-02-2022, 09:43 AM

I am encouraged by the apparent consistency in SGC's recent turn times, and for the first time in 18 months, dropped off a small submission of 2 cards at the post office yesterday evening.

I walked away from them with my hands thrown up last March, not over turn times or grading harshness, but due to faulty inserts that had tiny plastic shards sticking out at random places right up against the edge of my cards. I had always said I would give SGC a second chance, but given how upset I was at the time it was going to have to be awhile. I did notice in recent months that at least one thing I had complained about - the corner cutouts on the black inserts - have been modified slightly to blunt the edge that formerly was right down against the card. No clue if my angry feedback in early 2021 played a role in that, but it seemed to me as if they were at least willing to listen to suggestions.

I am hopeful that the "harsh grading" trend doesn't hit me too hard, but felt I owed it to them to try again. I had been a big SGC fan in the past who got soured over the initial mismanagement of their backlog in the early pandemic, and then over my own situation. So we will see. Only one card is raw grading anyway, and it's fairly well centered (an aspect of grading that the ostensibly new graders during the pandemic seemed to have a hard time with...) The other is a reholder.

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