The All Overrated Team

[Peter_Spaeth]

This is more subjective than statistical.

C -- Munson. Heresy, I know.
1B -- Cepeda although Perez is fine too.
2B -- Joe Gordon. HOF? Seriously?
SS -- Jeter. Heresy, I know.
3B -- Traynor.
OF -- Clemente (ducks), Reggie, Snider (if only because he is always included in the trio with Mays and Mantle but come on.), Brock
P -- Ryan.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This is more subjective than statistical.

C -- Munson. Heresy, I know.
1B -- Cepeda although Perez is fine too.
2B -- Joe Gordon. HOF? Seriously?
SS -- Jeter. Heresy, I know.
3B -- Traynor.
OF -- Clemente (ducks), Reggie, Snider (if only because he is always included in the trio with Mays and Mantle but come on.), Brock
P -- Ryan.

I don’t remember any public conversation when Joe Gordon was elected. Previously I considered him underrated; a guy the modern metrics like, a shortened career during his prime. He didn’t deserve to be forgotten, he didn’t deserve the hall either. I have no idea how he got elected on that ballot, there must be a story there. Most of the really and VC picks we know why, the Fritsch cronyism, Baines having his old bosses forming the voting base. I’d love to know what happened there

[isiahfan]

I am going with Koufax at SP...some people think he's the best ever...he had a great 5 year run (62-66) but was average at best outside of those few glory years...SO many guys has sick 3-5 year runs...but people claim him to be top 1...5...10...I just dont see it...I take Unit every day over him

Same with Ryan...longevity and his stats were WAY more consistent...his winning % wasnt great...but he (like Verlander) had quite a few years with some absurdly awful run support.

[Hawk68]

SP Andy Pettitte - 3.85 ERA/1.35 WHIP/4 SHO in 3316 IP. An average Pitcher.
RP Lee Smith - HOFer ???????
C Ivan Rodriguez - PEDs for most of his career.
1B Tony Perez - Good player. Borderline HOFer.
2B Bill Mazeroski - Good defender. Not a HOFer.
SS Phil Rizzuto - HOFer???????
3B Graig Nettles - .248 Lifetime Avg.
LF Lou Brock - Very good player. Deserving HOFer but overrated.
CF Jim Edmonds - Seemed to anticipate the highlight reels. Good player.
RF Dave Winfield - I Always thought he could be better.
Manager Joe Torre - Mediocre manager for 14 years prior to Yankee gig.

[packs]

SP - Dizzy Dean - Tim Lincecum before Tim Lincecum
RP - Trevor Hoffman - as beige a career as there is
C - Campanella - sorry, some high highs but some low lows too
1B - Sorry Gil, but still not sure you're a HOFer
2B - Biggio - compiler
SS - Jeter but not through any fault of his own
3B - Paul Molitor - lumped in with third base but played more at DH
OF - Reggie - more strike outs than hits
OF - Kirby Puckett - probably not a popular pick
OF - Duke Snider - not a Willie or a Mickey

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

SP - Dizzy Dean - Tim Lincecum before Tim Lincecum

I like this. Dean was great, for as long as Lincecum was great.

[campyfan39]

Respectfully, Campy doesn’t get close to the credit he deserves. Career limited at the beginning by racism as he was pioneer like Jackie. Doby and Campy get no credit for that.
Aside from that, in addition to his great defensive skills, he played 9 full seasons and won mvp 3 of them. That’s 1/3 of his career. Howmany guy have 3 mvps much less in one decade.

Originally Posted by packs

SP - Dizzy Dean - Tim Lincecum before Tim Lincecum
RP - Trevor Hoffman - as beige a career as there is
C - Campanella - sorry, some high highs but some low lows too
1B - Sorry Gil, but still not sure you're a HOFer
2B - Biggio - compiler
SS - Jeter but not through any fault of his own
3B - Paul Molitor - lumped in with third base but played more at DH
OF - Reggie - more strike outs than hits
OF - Kirby Puckett - probably not a popular pick
OF - Duke Snider - not a Willie or a Mickey

[packs]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Respectfully, Campy doesn’t get close to the credit he deserves. Career limited at the beginning by racism as he was pioneer like Jackie. Doby and Campy get no credit for that.
Aside from that, in addition to his great defensive skills, he played 9 full seasons and won mvp 3 of them. That’s 1/3 of his career. Howmany guy have 3 mvps much less in one decade.

I said I was sorry! His MVPs are what make me think of him as overrated. You hear three time MVP and you can't help but be impressed. But he sprinkled in some bad seasons in 1954, 1956 and his final season in 1957.

A third of his career he was incredible. Another third he wasn't.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Jackie picked at 2b is incomprehensible.

Through no fault of his own he didn't make the majors until he was 28. In 10 years he put up 60+ WAR. Name me another 2b who AVERAGED 6 WAR per season and I'll show you Rogers Hornsby and Eddie Collins. Show me a 2b who put up 60 WAR after the age of 28 and again I'll show you just Hornsby and Collins. For my money he's 3rd or 4th all time at the position. I can't decide between him and Morgan. Pretty hard to be overrated when your easily top 5 all-time at your position.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Jackie picked at 2b is incomprehensible.

Through no fault of his own he didn't make the majors until he was 28. In 10 years he put up 60+ WAR. Name me another 2b who AVERAGED 6 WAR per season and I'll show you Rogers Hornsby and Eddie Collins. Show me a 2b who put up 60 WAR after the age of 28 and again I'll show you just Hornsby and Collins. For my money he's 3rd or 4th all time at the position. I can't decide between him and Morgan. Pretty hard to be overrated when your easily top 5 all-time at your position.

When you are #1-#2 in the public eye at any position, I don’t see how it is incomprehensible. His fame and reputation are immensely greater than his statistical achievement. This is not a slur to his actual performance.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by G1911

When you are #1-#2 in the public eye at any position, I don’t see how it is incomprehensible. His fame and reputation are immensely greater than his statistical achievement. This is not a slur to his actual performance.

Just not seeing it. I don't think anyone considers him the greatest second basemen of all time (though I actually think you could make the argument without stretching TOO hard, but it would have to include a lot of hypotheticals about his years lost to the war and the "gentleman's agreement")

Unless you think me having him at 3rd all time is ludicrously high, how can he be overrated at all, let alone the MOST overrated second basemen of all time, which is what putting him on your list represents. Shouldn't that "honor" be saved for someone who is ranked 10 or 20 spots too high as opposed to maybe one or two spots too high?

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Jackie picked at 2b is incomprehensible.

Through no fault of his own he didn't make the majors until he was 28. In 10 years he put up 60+ WAR. Name me another 2b who AVERAGED 6 WAR per season and I'll show you Rogers Hornsby and Eddie Collins. Show me a 2b who put up 60 WAR after the age of 28 and again I'll show you just Hornsby and Collins. For my money he's 3rd or 4th all time at the position. I can't decide between him and Morgan. Pretty hard to be overrated when your easily top 5 all-time at your position.

^^^This!

In some ways I actually feel bad for him having the great honor of being the first black MLB player. Tremendous accomplishment in its own right considering what he endured and how it transcended beyond sports. However, I think a lot of people overlook how good of a player he actually was. I think you're correct as the number 3 or 4 all time at 2nd.