Article about Collecting and Fraud in the Hobby

[Peter_Spaeth]

Stuff trumps all. I used to say it in a somewhat moralistic, disapproving way. Now, I say it just as fact, in a resigned way. The generation of collectors to which I and many of us here belong, has been pushed aside by Travis' generation of collectors. If you care about altered cards, do your best to protect yourself but don't count on the hobby to do shit.

What a brilliant strategy it was. Trim enough cards, get them in holders, and eventually most people won't care.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Stuff trumps all. I used to say it in a somewhat moralistic, disapproving way. Now, I say it just as fact, in a resigned way. The generation of collectors to which I and many of us here belong, has been pushed aside by Travis' generation of collectors. If you care about altered cards, do your best to protect yourself but don't count on the hobby to do shit.

What a brilliant strategy it was. Trim enough cards, get them in holders, and eventually most people won't care.

LOL

Peter, so right you are.

It is the same with many things in life. Keep saying the same lies and half-truths over and over again and eventually people will somehow start to believe you.

And as for marketplaces like Ebay not caring about shilling, they actually do care about it. Just not necessarily to the point where they proactively go out of their way to search out and remove such perpetrators. But they do include it as being against their rules so that when an instance does get publicly outed and pushed in their faces, they can act and ban such perpetrators from their selling formats. Do they care that shilling doesn't negatively impact their reputations and customer bases, absolutely. But they also all know that can't possibly police and stop everyone that may try to shill bid an auction. When people point fingers at large sellers on such online marketplaces as facilitating and supposedly being involved with this shill bidding, isn't it possible that these sellers aren't actually involved, but that their customers/consignors are the ones really responsible for doing the shilling themselves, without these seller's direct knowledge? I am not saying any of these sellers are or are not complicit, I'll leave that to others to decide for themselves. Because these sellers are usually the biggest card sellers on these marketplaces, and thus tend to get the most auction views and repeat customers, spending the most money, the shill bidding customers/consignors might just be picking them to sell and shill bid their cards through. And somehow everyone thinks or feels that because these sellers don't then go out of their way to actively investigate and ban all these shill bidders, they are accused of actively supporting and being involved with them. God forbid they don't already have more than enough work to do in running and handling all the auctions and items they handle and process. So why doesn't the actual marketplace itself get the same level of blame and corrupt involvement leveled at it, like some of these sellers do? Maybe it is because they do have a specific written rule against shill bidding, and when pushed, they do appear to enforce it to some extent. And before one of the typical butt-holes comes on here and then tries to accuse me of defending shill bidding, or the sellers that are then accused of facilitating and colluding with the shill bidders, or actively involved with it themselves, I am not in any way for shill bidding and those that knowingly do it. So don't even start!!!

Was shill bidding the sole reason that PWCC get bounced from Ebay, probably not? But was it the basis or at least one of the significant reasons ultimately behind the decision, I would guess that is a big yes.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Stuff trumps all. I used to say it in a somewhat moralistic, disapproving way. Now, I say it just as fact, in a resigned way. The generation of collectors to which I and many of us here belong, has been pushed aside by Travis' generation of collectors. If you care about altered cards, do your best to protect yourself but don't count on the hobby to do shit.

What a brilliant strategy it was. Trim enough cards, get them in holders, and eventually most people won't care.

There are certainly generational differences in how people approach the hobby and the world in general. I think the majority of the harm/trimming issues began decades ago though. As I mentioned earlier, the percentage of trimmed cards in early PSA holders is staggering. Most of the well known trimmers are on the "other side of the hill". The vast majority of the younger collectors with the "meh, is what it is" mindset probably aren't the ones trimming cards. I think those people are sitting on the sidelines, completely silent, with a bucket of popcorn.