When Did RC Become Most Important?

jchcollins · #1 09-27-2022, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Beckett claimed, in writing, that the Goudey was a rookie for years. It�s not a jest.

The various forms of the Beckett organization - over their considerable history in the hobby at this point, has done more than a few questionable things here and there.

G1911 · #2 09-27-2022, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchcollins

The various forms of the Beckett organization - over their considerable history in the hobby at this point, has done more than a few questionable things here and there.

To put it mildly

. But a jest is very different from a stupid proclamation. Beckett didn�t misprint one catalogue or have an April fools day jest. They kept it there for years, it was serious.

jchcollins · #3 09-27-2022, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

To put it mildly

. But a jest is very different from a stupid proclamation. Beckett didn�t misprint one catalogue or have an April fools day jest. They kept it there for years, it was serious.

Just being honest, I don't remember that. Not saying it wasn't there. I'm guessing this was in the yearly guides later in the 90's and not in BBCM - where indeed, they did not list values for prewar cards. I would agree it's a stupid proclamation.

chadeast · #4 09-27-2022, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Just being honest, I don't remember that. Not saying it wasn't there. I'm guessing this was in the yearly guides later in the 90's and not in BBCM - where indeed, they did not list values for prewar cards. I would agree it's a stupid proclamation.

I have a 2010 Beckett price guide (see photo above) in which the 4 Ruths and almost every other card in the '33 Goudey set are designated as RC, so it has been at least that recently that the stupid proclamation has been propagated.

Exhibitman · #5 09-27-2022, 04:38 PM

It was CPU. It was all the rage around 1981-82 when I got out of the hobby as a teen and when I went back into my LCS several years later and asked for one, the owner chuckled and asked where I'd been, then handed me a Beckett magazine.

The RC thing really started to matter in the early 1980s due to the publications pushing it. Before that, RCs were usually multi-player cards and were considered less desirable for that reason. By the mid-1980s the RC thing was in full bloom, and that run of Ripken, Gwynn, Boggs, Sandberg, Mattingly and several others who faded away (1984 Donruss Joe Carter anyone?) reached its apex in 1989 with Griffey and Upper Deck. Those things traded like penny stocks, in bricks. I knew weekend warriors who went all-in early and grossed thousands of dollars a day flipping them. Then we got junk wax...

The biggest RC of them all was Michael Jordan. I remember walking past an entire table of 1986 Fleer around 1987 or so and derisively describing it as crap.

HistoricNewspapers · #6 09-28-2022, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

It was CPU. It was all the rage around 1981-82 when I got out of the hobby as a teen and when I went back into my LCS several years later and asked for one, the owner chuckled and asked where I'd been, then handed me a Beckett magazine.

The RC thing really started to matter in the early 1980s due to the publications pushing it. Before that, RCs were usually multi-player cards and were considered less desirable for that reason. By the mid-1980s the RC thing was in full bloom, and that run of Ripken, Gwynn, Boggs, Sandberg, Mattingly and several others who faded away (1984 Donruss Joe Carter anyone?) reached its apex in 1989 with Griffey and Upper Deck. Those things traded like penny stocks, in bricks. I knew weekend warriors who went all-in early and grossed thousands of dollars a day flipping them. Then we got junk wax...

The biggest RC of them all was Michael Jordan. I remember walking past an entire table of 1986 Fleer around 1987 or so and derisively describing it as crap.

The ironic thing is that the 1986 fleer Jordan is his third year card. All one had to do back then is look at the back of his card and see he has two years worth of stats on the card. Then look at the Star Company cards and one had his college stats and the next year had his NBA rookie stats...then the third year Fleer arrived.

The Star Company cards were also much better sets representing more players from each team.

Imagine how many young people in the 1980's and thought that baseball cards were only made in 1909/11 with T206, 1933, and then 1948. Then they got the year wrong for 1949 Leaf and that stuck too. There were probably people that figured there was nothing in-between those years.

I would say that greatly suppressed the prices of any card not listed in the Beckett Monthly and grossly inflated the ones that were.

The astute collectors knew better of course.

As for Ruth, how on earth could the 1921-1922 Caramel sets not be included? Probably because the people making the decisions to decide RC's didn't have any, or as many, as the more common cards...

D. Bergin · #7 09-28-2022, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HistoricNewspapers

The ironic thing is that the 1986 fleer Jordan is his third year card. All one had to do back then is look at the back of his card and see he has two years worth of stats on the card. Then look at the Star Company cards and one had his college stats and the next year had his NBA rookie stats...then the third year Fleer arrived.

The Star Company cards were also much better sets representing more players from each team.

The Star Company cards were distributed very poorly. They were considered a novelty back then because there were not sold in Wax Packs. They were essentially sold like Minor League team sets at the time. There were like 10 hobby dealers in the entire country that controlled the entire press run.

The Fleer cards were considered the first nationally and traditionally distributed basketball set since the early 80's Topps sets.

That's not even going into the serious questions about Star Co. repros and possible multiple uses of the printing plates, or if anybody really has a great handle on telling the 1st printing stuff from the later printing stuff.

rats60 · #8 09-28-2022, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HistoricNewspapers

The ironic thing is that the 1986 fleer Jordan is his third year card. All one had to do back then is look at the back of his card and see he has two years worth of stats on the card. Then look at the Star Company cards and one had his college stats and the next year had his NBA rookie stats...then the third year Fleer arrived.

The Star Company cards were also much better sets representing more players from each team.

Imagine how many young people in the 1980's and thought that baseball cards were only made in 1909/11 with T206, 1933, and then 1948. Then they got the year wrong for 1949 Leaf and that stuck too. There were probably people that figured there was nothing in-between those years.

I would say that greatly suppressed the prices of any card not listed in the Beckett Monthly and grossly inflated the ones that were.

The astute collectors knew better of course.

As for Ruth, how on earth could the 1921-1922 Caramel sets not be included? Probably because the people making the decisions to decide RC's didn't have any, or as many, as the more common cards...

The 1969 Topps Reggie Jackson has two years of MLB stats on the back. Is it no longer a rookie card?

The hobby adopted the definition of a rookie card to be inclusive. They knew that if the hobby was to grow and survive, a player's best card had to be accessable to everyone, not just to dealers and wealthy adults. That is why Jackie Robinson's RCs are 1949 Leaf and Bowman and Michael Jordan's RC is 1986 Fleer. It doesn't stop you from collecting earlier cards.

The hobby is no different today. Julio Rodriguez's RCs are in the 2022 products. It doesn't matter that he had a 2021 Bowman's Best card.

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