Casey Stengel and Dave Roberts...

[michael3322]

Also, add to this, Mack spent more time as the manager of a team than anyone else in baseball history by a country mile...


1901-50 Connie Mack, Athletics (50 seasons)

Mack’s entire career was legendary. During his time with the A’s, which began when he was just 38 years old, the team totaled nine pennants, with five of those resulting in World Series titles. Only two managers -- fellow Hall of Famers Joe McCarthy and Casey Stengel -- won more titles, with seven each.

Next up...

1902-32 John McGraw, Giants (31 seasons)

The 29-year-old McGraw signed with the Giants during the season in 1902 after the player/manager was released by the Orioles, beginning a tenure that would last until 1932. Primarily an infielder, he spent his first five years with the Giants as a player/manager before becoming solely the skipper. During his span with New York, the Giants won 10 pennants and converted three of those into World Series titles. The Giants had a .591 winning percentage during McGraw’s time in charge.

Source: MLB, Skippers who stuck with 1 team the longest.

[michael3322]

Almost forgot...

Associated Press Connie Mack, in his customary suit and tie, talking with Casey Stengel in spring training of 1934.

[Yoda]

And let us not forget that Casey hit the first HR (inside the park) at the old Yankee Stadium.

[frankbmd]

He was older than my grandfather when he signed for me in 1957.

To be honest, he was always older than my grandfather.

[Orioles1954]

Would you the Yankees have 27 titles in the playoff era? No.

Would the Yankees have won others if the playoff era existed in those days? Most probably.

Is the 2020 Los Angeles Dodgers World Series title legitimate? I consider it a partial title.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Is the 2020 Los Angeles Dodgers World Series title legitimate? I consider it a partial title.

Why would you think that, just because a normal full season wasn't played in 2020? All the teams played a similar number of games, and for the most part all had the same advantages and disadvantages. So with everything else being pretty much equal, why shouldn't that WS championship count just as much as any other one?

And if you're basing that opinion primarily on the fact they played fewer games in the regular season, then by that logic all the WS champions from when they only played 154 game seasons, and had no playoffs and all those additional games to then play, should all be looked down upon and only partially valued as well.

[Exhibitman]

Read Dynasty by Peter Golenbock. It details the Yankees' teams in the Stengel-Houk era. Casey was a hell of a lot sharper as a manager than most give him credit for, because of his corn-pone public persona. He platooned brilliantly, preserved pitchers' arms despite the trends of the time (Whitey Ford won over 20 only after Stengel left but he pitched into the late 1960s), used an ace reliever (Joe Page) and always looked for others, and generally knew what he was doing. Yes, George Weiss gave him a great bunch of tools to work with and yes, they did have a virtual farm club in KC, but he got the job done. Within five years of his and Weiss's departures, the club turned to crap. His teams had very few stars--only three HOFers (Ford, Mantle and Berra; well, also a few seasons of dimming DiMaggio), but they were deep, disciplined and hungry. On paper. the Red Sox and Dodgers were better teams, but that's why you play the games. Stengel also trained up Berra and Martin, who became good managers, and Elston Howard too, who probably would have gotten to manager had he not died only 5 years after the managerial color barrier was broken.

As for playoffs, sure, there would have been upsets. I am displeased with the playoffs as constituted. I don't think an entire season should boil down to a weekend. But that's another debate.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by BobC

Why would you think that, just because a normal full season wasn't played in 2020? All the teams played a similar number of games, and for the most part all had the same advantages and disadvantages. So with everything else being pretty much equal, why shouldn't that WS championship count just as much as any other one?

And if you're basing that opinion primarily on the fact they played fewer games in the regular season, then by that logic all the WS champions from when they only played 154 game seasons, and had no playoffs and all those additional games to then play, should all be looked down upon and only partially valued as well.

If they played 10 games and then went straight to the postseason, would that be enough to count as a season?

How about 25? 50?

Naturally, there's got to be a cutoff somewhere, where the season is so small as to not really be a season. You might think 60 is enough. I'm not convinced that 60 is really meaningful. Seems more like about 37% of a season to me.

Comparing to the 154 game season seems a little silly, particularly in the context that you're arguing that 37% is no different than 95%. Obviously 154 games is a real season. It doesn't seem absurd to suggest that we can debate whether 60 games is really a full season.

And in my case for this specific "season", my deep seated ill will, antipathy, and malice towards the Dodgers doesn't make me inclined to feel charitable towards 37% of a season being regarded as a full season.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

He was older than my grandfather when he signed for me in 1957.

To be honest, he was always older than my grandfather.

He was 82 when I sat next to him at Dodger Stadium in 1972 with my Grandfather. He looked 90 in a leisure suit jacket that looked like a horse blanket in the 100+ degree heat on a Sunday afternoon in the sun.

My grandfather whispered to me, "That's Casey Stengel". When he found out my name was Chuck/Charles...he signed my program, To Charles, from Charles Casey Stengel.....3 times. I cherished that program until it turned up "LOST". I have all my other programs from that ERA. How I wish it would show up somewhere so I can buy it, LOL.

Eventually, it seemed like the entire ballpark lined up to get his autograph, LOL. A very special day with my Grandpa I will never forget.

This is all I have now. and a neat story for my Grandkids, who can look him up on Wikipedia. I had to look him up with "baseball cards"

[Jay Wolt]

[Leon]

One from my previous collection...

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by michael3322

Almost forgot...

Associated Press Connie Mack, in his customary suit and tie, talking with Casey Stengel in spring training of 1934.

Mr. Mack: Now Casey I promise I won't divulge this sexually compromising photo if you trade me your best Brooklyn players at a deep discount.

Casey: Gee, Connie, er Mr. Mack, I don't think I have any.

[Exhibitman]

God himself could not have won with the 1962-65 Mets rosters.

The Yankees did have many really good players in the Stengel years. Solid players but not the guys you'd think of as top-tier players or HOFers. The Dodgers seemed way more front-loaded for most of that time: Campanella, Hodges, Reese, Robinson, Furillo, Snider come to mind. The Yankees were really deep, and that wins games.

I forgot about Rizzuto (just like the HOF voters); definitely was an integral starter during the 5-pennant run. Mize was a HOFer but he only appeared in over 100 games once in his Yankees days.

A team can have all the talent in the world but management decisions can drive the clown car off the road. Like the 1982-94 Yankees. The Boss kept signing whoever and the teams won lots of games but nothing in the post-season.

All that aside, I am not sure Roberts should get run. He had to contend with some season-ending critical injuries (losing Buehler was huge; went from 4th in Cy Young voting to sayonara for 2022). Add to that Bellinger (pronounced "turd") and you are down two critical players. I think he did really well regardless. The short format playoffs just favor a streaky team.