Top 25 Worst MLB HOFER’S

[theshowandme]

I’d rather have John Olerud in the HoF than George Kelly

[FrankWakefield]

George Kelley... I think Kelley should be in. I initially didn't, I barely knew of him. He's mentioned in Thomas' excellent book about Walter Johnson. The newspaper writers of the day recognized his ability to hit. If I'd not read that stuff, I'd be less supportive of him, or indifferent. You guys should read that book.

Frisch. I'm a Cardinals fan. Lifelong. I'm a fan of Bill James, the book writer / baseball numbers cruncher. I liked his initial book about the Hall of fame, I think it was called The Politics of Glory. James was not a fan of what Frisch did. Partly, I think Frisch played then and he knew who should be in. I'm good with Haines in. And partly, the larger part, I think Frish and some others got the Hall nudged in an unfortunate direction. I used to think Gary Carter should not have gone in. He hustled, could hit, was a fierce competitor, but I did not hold his skills in awe. Now that T Simmons is in, I feel like Carter was about that good, so they both can stay in. (Like otherwise they'd pay attention to me and kick someone out???)

Perez. Again, I'm a life long Cardinals fan. I saw a bunch of Reds games in Cincy, and in St. Louis. When the Reds had runners on late in the game, it sure seemed like Tony Perez could drive them in. That man could put the bat on the ball when the game was on the line. If the HOF were up to me, I'd have him in. This little story may not be true... but one night, late in the game, Tony Perez hits a home run that puts the Reds ahead, and then one of those hard throwing relievers finishes things and the Reds win. The old lefthander, Joe Nuxhall, is doing the color part of the radio broadcast, and he goes down to the field to interview the star of the game. That night, it was Tony Perez. Tony was still on cloud 9, having homered to get the win. A very few questions in, Nuxhall asks, Tony, what was that pitch you hit? Joe, you know it was a peter high fast ball. Soon after, Nuxhall was ending his interview, as he most always did, repeating the winning team and the score, then saying that's all for tonight, the old lefthander is rounding third and heading for home.

[FrankWakefield]

Exhibits,

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[cammb]

Jack Morris belongs on that 10 inning World Series game alone. As stated in the article, everyone wanted Morris on their team and especially in clutch situations. That means something.

[bbcard1]

Buck O'Neil despite being a great human being and ambassador for the game has no business being in the hall. No real qualifications as a player (1.5 career WAR), manager (two Negro League titles after most of the talented players had been in the hall of fame...there were around six teams at the time) or executive (he was a coach and scout, not an executive). There is not ambassador category for the hall of fame. People always stand on their soapbox and tell me what a nice man he was...and I met him and he was, a real treasure. My Uncle Frank was nice, too, but he's not in the baseball hall of fame.

Just doesn't meet any criteria except that he got elected.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Buck O'Neil despite being a great human being and ambassador for the game has no business being in the hall. No real qualifications as a player (1.5 career WAR), manager (two Negro League titles after most of the talented players had been in the hall of fame...there were around six teams at the time) or executive (he was a coach and scout, not an executive). There is not ambassador category for the hall of fame. People always stand on their soapbox and tell me what a nice man he was...and I met him and he was, a real treasure. My Uncle Frank was nice, too, but he's not in the baseball hall of fame.

Just doesn't meet any criteria except that he got elected.

This is a good pick. He is in the Hall for being likable and being a decades-after-the-fact symbol, not for for any actual performance.

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by G1911

This is a good pick. He is in the Hall for being likable and being a decades-after-the-fact symbol, not for for any actual performance.

I will give him that he is the anti-Curt Schilling.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Buck O'Neil despite being a great human being and ambassador for the game has no business being in the hall. No real qualifications as a player (1.5 career WAR), manager (two Negro League titles after most of the talented players had been in the hall of fame...there were around six teams at the time) or executive (he was a coach and scout, not an executive). There is not ambassador category for the hall of fame. People always stand on their soapbox and tell me what a nice man he was...and I met him and he was, a real treasure. My Uncle Frank was nice, too, but he's not in the baseball hall of fame.

Just doesn't meet any criteria except that he got elected.

Yeah, Buck has to be #1 worst pick for any on-field personnel. We've kinda beaten that subject to death in the past, and I'm always surprised by the number of people who feel the opposite way about it. Just because I don't think he deserves enshrinement does it mean that he wasn't a wonderful human being. As I believe I mentioned when this was brought up in another thread, I just wish they would consider adding an Ambassadors wing. Then, fine, Buck has a place that makes sense, and we can finally get O'Doul in as well.

On a related note, what about undeserving non-playing members of the Hall? Help me out: who was the one that many feel was accidentally inducted, Hulbert or Bulkeley? It supposedly should have been Nick Young.

[G1911]

If Kelly and Haines are good selections despite the statistical evidence, how did Frisch edge the Hall in an unfortunate direction?

[Misunderestimated]

My preferred statistical guideline is the JAWS metric which blends career value with peak value... It show George Kelly as the 95th best 1st Basemen. Even if we give him some extra-credit for being an beloved part of some winning teams (4 pennants and 3 WS Champions 1921-24)*

.... even his nickname ("High Pockets) does not get him within shouting distance of being a HOF caliber player... There are 23 1Bs in the HOF (including some who probably get credit for managing etc like Chance and Torre and Negro League legends who we don't have many stats for)... Frank Chance, considered a low-end HOF when he's viewed purely as a player, rates as #37 Jim Bottomley scores as #56. .. Kelly is 95th !

--
* - Frankie Frisch was the 2B on all of these teams.

[yanks87]

I don’t think Edgar Martinez belongs in. All the WAR fans will say otherwise, for me, it comes down to a very simple fact. He didn’t play the field. Baines, Warner, and all the rest that are deemed OVERRATED still played the field.

I think the hall has gotten soft, and I think there are years that there shouldn’t be inductions, for the sake of inductions. If you are going to be inducted as a DH, in my mind, you have to achieve one of the gold standards for hitters, 3000 hits or 500 homers. Since they don’t field, to be the best of the best, which is what the hall is supposed to be about, you’d have to achieve at least one of those milestones.

Was he good, yes, very good, yes, hall of fame, not in my mind.

[sycks22]

Originally Posted by yanks87

I don’t think Edgar Martinez belongs in. All the WAR fans will say otherwise, for me, it comes down to a very simple fact. He didn’t play the field. Baines, Warner, and all the rest that are deemed OVERRATED still played the field.

I think the hall has gotten soft, and I think there are years that there shouldn’t be inductions, for the sake of inductions. If you are going to be inducted as a DH, in my mind, you have to achieve one of the gold standards for hitters, 3000 hits or 500 homers. Since they don’t field, to be the best of the best, which is what the hall is supposed to be about, you’d have to achieve at least one of those milestones.

Was he good, yes, very good, yes, hall of fame, not in my mind.

Martinez was a DH the last 9 years of his career, Baines was a DH the last 15 years. Tough to argue Baines played the field

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

My preferred statistical guideline is the JAWS metric which blends career value with peak value... It show George Kelly as the 95th best 1st Basemen. Even if we give him some extra-credit for being an beloved part of some winning teams (4 pennants and 3 WS Champions 1921-24)* --
* - Frankie Frisch was the 2B on all of these teams.

The NY Giants only won 2 WS during the years 1921-24. The NY Yankees and the Senators won the other 2 WS.