Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

raulus · #1 11-08-2022, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

I don�t know, I think I read one of his books half way and threw it out for being nauseating gossip. Only Ortiz falls into this category, of material evidence and it being ignored. There is no evidence the writers have instituted a gossip standard, where any player someone has said something about are excluded. They have for guys for which there is compelling evidence like failed tests, their plugs testimony in court, order records, etc. That is what has kept a long list of names out, and for which this clear standard was ignored to induct a person they liked.

Gotcha.

I guess there's also some question about the list that Ortiz was on, since it was never made public, right? And his being on that list was in some ways a bit of gossip?

G1911 · #2 11-08-2022, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

Gotcha.

I guess there's also some question about the list that Ortiz was on, since it was never made public, right? And his being on that list was in some ways a bit of gossip?

It wasn't supposed to be public, but as these things usually go, the media got their hands on the list.

If we adopted a standard where this doesn't count because it wasn't intended to be public, well, most things that happen and get caught wouldn't be admissible. Clemens order receipts and Bonds' private dealings with his trainer/drug supplier weren't supposed to be public either. And yet here we are.

GeoPoto · #3 11-08-2022, 01:33 PM

It not only wasn't intended to be public, but Manfred has also said it likely wasn't entirely accurate, because it wasn't fully vetted. It served its purpose as anecdotal information but wasn't managed and adjudicated the way it would have been if it was expected to be used as evidence against a specific player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

It wasn't supposed to be public, but as these things usually go, the media got their hands on the list.

G1911 · #4 11-08-2022, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

It not only wasn't intended to be public, but Manfred has also said it likely wasn't entirely accurate, because it wasn't fully vetted. It served its purpose as anecdotal information but wasn't managed and adjudicated the way it would have been if it was expected to be used as evidence against a specific player.

Of course Manfred said that, he had too because that was the deal that was agreed to and got the Players to take tests in the first place. MLB cannot "fully vet" and certify them without breaking the agreement. It's an appeal to an impossibility, like when classified intel is leaked and the CIA won't confirm it.

If this test is anecdotal, then so is the case against Clemens that relies mostly on others testimony without any failed test or direct evidence. This argument just shifts the double standard to be a different double standard, not a not double standard.

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