Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

insidethewrapper · #1 11-08-2022, 03:23 PM

Was Lou Whitaker not eligible for this committee since he started in 1977 ? What was the cut off year ?

G1911 · #2 11-08-2022, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Was Lou Whitaker not eligible for this committee since he started in 1977 ? What was the cut off year ?

It�s for players whose �primary contribution� was after 1980, so I think Whitaker would have qualified to be considered for this final ballot. That he started in 1977 shouldn�t put him into the pre-1980 primary contribution group.

Jason19th · #3 11-08-2022, 04:18 PM

I will never understand the outrage about Shilling not being in and the assumption that it is because of his politics. Look at his numbers- the vast majority of guys with those numbers are not in and most have not been controversial exclusions- see Lew Burdette, Ron Guidry, Vida Blue, Kevin Brown, Orel Hershisrer, Mel Harder, Kenny Rodgers, David Wells, Luis Tiante, Wilbur Cooper, Mickey Lolich, Billy Pierce, Bob Welch, Dave Stewart, Denny McClain, Freddie Fitzimmons

raulus · #4 11-08-2022, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason19th

I will never understand the outrage about Shilling not being in and the assumption that it is because of his politics. Look at his numbers- the vast majority of guys with those numbers are not in and most have not been controversial exclusions- see Lew Burdette, Ron Guidry, Vida Blue, Kevin Brown, Orel Hershisrer, Mel Harder, Kenny Rodgers, David Wells, Luis Tiante, Wilbur Cooper, Mickey Lolich, Billy Pierce, Bob Welch, Dave Stewart, Denny McClain, Freddie Fitzimmons

Somewhat amazingly, the writers gave Curt 71.1% of the vote in 2021, which seems high based on the comps that you mentioned. Particularly for the writers, who seem to be pretty picky of late.

frankbmd · #5 11-08-2022, 04:42 PM

What if 75% of the voters (the dirty dozen) are on steroids? Will anyone care if these dudes are in the HOF in fifty years?

timn1 · #6 11-09-2022, 07:20 PM

Correct - I despise Schilling but if he had Clemens' numbers he would be in for sure. He's just not there stats-wise. I'd much rather see Orel Hershiser get in, or Billy Pierce, or Tiant.

McGriff played in an era of much less offense than the Bonds/Palmeiro group. He belongs in the Hall, I think. Mattingly I'm on the fence about. Murphy not quite...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason19th

I will never understand the outrage about Shilling not being in and the assumption that it is because of his politics. Look at his numbers- the vast majority of guys with those numbers are not in and most have not been controversial exclusions- see Lew Burdette, Ron Guidry, Vida Blue, Kevin Brown, Orel Hershisrer, Mel Harder, Kenny Rodgers, David Wells, Luis Tiante, Wilbur Cooper, Mickey Lolich, Billy Pierce, Bob Welch, Dave Stewart, Denny McClain, Freddie Fitzimmons

Mike D. · #7 11-09-2022, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timn1

McGriff played in an era of much less offense than the Bonds/Palmeiro group.

McGriff: 1986-2004

Bonds: 1986-2007

Palmiero: 1986-2005

Mike D. · #8 11-09-2022, 07:40 PM

By my count, there have been 19 pitchers with 200 career wins and 3,000 strikeouts.

Not in the HOF:

- Clemens (on this ballot)
- Schilling (on this ballot)
- Verlander (active)
- Scherzer (active)
- Sabathia (not yet eligible)

If you prefer WAR, Schilling is 26th all time among SP's.

Those above him not in the HOF:

- Roger Clemens

mainemule · #9 11-10-2022, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D.

By my count, there have been 19 pitchers with 200 career wins and 3,000 strikeouts.

Not in the HOF:

- Clemens (on this ballot)
- Schilling (on this ballot)
- Verlander (active)
- Scherzer (active)
- Sabathia (not yet eligible)

If you prefer WAR, Schilling is 26th all time among SP's.

Those above him not in the HOF:

- Roger Clemens

3 WS rings, a 4th Series with the Phillies, broke the "Curse," crazy all-around playoff and WS numbers- these all matter.....

His post-career behavior has clearly kept him out.

He also won the Clemente award so he did have a period of good character for sure.

G1911 · #10 11-09-2022, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D.

McGriff: 1986-2004

Bonds: 1986-2007

Palmiero: 1986-2005

I laughed

Tabe · #11 11-09-2022, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D.

McGriff: 1986-2004

Bonds: 1986-2007

Palmiero: 1986-2005

It's those 2005-2007 years that make all the difference.

scotgreb · #12 11-08-2022, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

It�s for players whose �primary contribution� was after 1980, so I think Whitaker would have qualified to be considered for this final ballot. That he started in 1977 shouldn�t put him into the pre-1980 primary contribution group.

Whitaker was on the last ballot (2020) and received 6 votes -- more than Murphy and Mattingly combined. My advice is to not try to make sense of the process or the decisions. There is no logic to piece together.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #13 11-08-2022, 04:42 PM

Mel Harder and Billy Pierce were friends of mine. Both were salt of the earth-caliber humble. While I often looked at Mel's numbers and all those years with just one club, I'm reminded what that writer said about Early Wynn in the "Worst HOFers" article recently posted in another thread. It was something akin to longevity does not always equal greatness. I think Mel's numbers do come close and are certainly comparable to some HOF pitchers. Bob Feller told me he thought Mel should be inducted, but there's no way to account for a bit of bias there. But, as we know, Feller was as outspoken as they come, and called things as he saw them, so it's hard to say. Just remember that he did personally witness the majority of Harder's pitching career.

On a personal level, I'd be thrilled for my old friends if they were enshrined, but realistically, it would make no sense. I was completely floored when Billy's name came up for serious consideration in a recent voting. Really? Billy Pierce? Like I said, a complete sweetheart of a human being, but I've never associated him as having anywhere near a HOF-caliber career.

G1911 · #14 11-08-2022, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotgreb

Whitaker was on the last ballot (2020) and received 6 votes -- more than Murphy and Mattingly combined. My advice is to not try to make sense of the process or the decisions. There is no logic to piece together.

The 2020 ballot used a different era system than the �reconstituted for like the 20th time� new committees.

I�m not really a Whitaker advocate but I have a very hard time seeing how he�s out if Trammell is in. Whitaker has to get in at some point� maybe�

G1911 · #15 11-08-2022, 04:49 PM

Schillings 79.5 WAR is pretty deep into obvious Hall territory.

Some voters were writing opinion pieces specifically stating they weren�t voting for him for social politics, as I recall.

I find it difficult to pretend he got a fair shake and is kept out on statistical grounds.

rand1com · #16 11-08-2022, 05:01 PM

None of them get in IMO.

Frank A · #17 11-08-2022, 05:14 PM

I hope clemens and bonds never get in.

Gorditadogg · #18 11-10-2022, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Schillings 79.5 WAR is pretty deep into obvious Hall territory.

Some voters were writing opinion pieces specifically stating they weren’t voting for him for social politics, as I recall.

I find it difficult to pretend he got a fair shake and is kept out on statistical grounds.

He deserves to be in based on his numbers. I just looked at his stats and he had some really good years. His 2002 year was incredible, 23-7 with a 3.23 ERA in 259 innings, and amazingly 316 strikeouts and only 29 walks. Of course he might be in the hall already if he didn't tell the sportswriters not to vote for him.

"I will not participate in the final year of voting. I am requesting to be removed from the ballot," he wrote. "I'll defer to the veterans committee and men whose opinions actually matter and who are in a position to actually judge a player. I don't think I'm a hall of famer as I've often stated but if former players think I am then I'll accept that with honor."

G1911 · #19 11-10-2022, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

He deserves to be in based on his numbers. I just looked at his stats and he had some really good years. His 2002 year was incredible, 23-7 with a 3.23 ERA in 259 innings, and amazingly 316 strikeouts and only 29 walks. Of course he might be in the hall already if he didn't tell the sportswriters not to vote for him.

"I will not participate in the final year of voting. I am requesting to be removed from the ballot," he wrote. "I'll defer to the veterans committee and men whose opinions actually matter and who are in a position to actually judge a player. I don't think I'm a hall of famer as I've often stated but if former players think I am then I'll accept that with honor."

Have a quote for the 9 years before that? Every time Schilling comes up, his tenth year ‘screw it’ is brought up in a vacuum as if the writers just politely respected his wishes all along. The context of how and why that quote was made are never brought up with it.

rand1com · #20 11-10-2022, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

He deserves to be in based on his numbers. I just looked at his stats and he had some really good years. His 2002 year was incredible, 23-7 with a 3.23 ERA in 259 innings, and amazingly 316 strikeouts and only 29 walks. Of course he might be in the hall already if he didn't tell the sportswriters not to vote for him.

"I will not participate in the final year of voting. I am requesting to be removed from the ballot," he wrote. "I'll defer to the veterans committee and men whose opinions actually matter and who are in a position to actually judge a player. I don't think I'm a hall of famer as I've often stated but if former players think I am then I'll accept that with honor."

He admitted he is not a Hall of Famer and he is 100% correct!

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