Most Underrated Hitting Season of All Time?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by BobC

The fact that no one has even mentioned his name yet tells you how underrated he is. In 2004, Ichiro Suzuki batted .372 while collecting 262 hits to set the all-time ML record for hits in a single season. He broke Rogers Hornsby's previous record of 257 hits set in 1920, 84 years earlier. And despite leading the majors in hits and average that year, he only came in a distant 7th in the MVP voting. Think about that, he set an all-time batting record and topped the previous record that had existed for over 80 years, and couldn't even crack the top 5 in MVP voting. All during the height of the steroid era.

Mariners were horrible that year to. Bunch of guys on that team who used to be good. If he had a better lineup behind him, he might have gotten more at bats and maybe 10-15 more hits that year then he already compiled, and probably more MVP votes.

Never helped him that he didn't exactly pile up the extra base hits or walks. Reason why I always ranked Boggs and Gwynn well ahead of him, offensively at least. Ichiro was probably superior defensively for the first half of his career anyways, even though Boggs was always better defensively, then he got credit for.

[lampertb]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Mariners were horrible that year to. Bunch of guys on that team who used to be good. If he had a better lineup behind him, he might have gotten more at bats and maybe 10-15 more hits that year then he already compiled, and probably more MVP votes.

Never helped him that he didn't exactly pile up the extra base hits or walks. Reason why I always ranked Boggs and Gwynn well ahead of him, offensively at least. Ichiro was probably superior defensively for the first half of his career anyways, even though Boggs was always better defensively, then he got credit for.

Wish the Majors would swing back to that style of hits over HR... it won't happen because of what sells tickets and advertising dollars in the modern age, but Boggs, Gwynn, Ichiro... my kind of baseball.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Mariners were horrible that year to. Bunch of guys on that team who used to be good. If he had a better lineup behind him, he might have gotten more at bats and maybe 10-15 more hits that year then he already compiled, and probably more MVP votes.

Never helped him that he didn't exactly pile up the extra base hits or walks. Reason why I always ranked Boggs and Gwynn well ahead of him, offensively at least. Ichiro was probably superior defensively for the first half of his career anyways, even though Boggs was always better defensively, then he got credit for.

I know Dave, but he broke an all-time record and the best he could get was 7th for the MVP!?!?!? How often does someone break an all-time record like that? Just goes to show how everyone was so enamored with the PED users and the long ball back then.

And as for Boggs and Gwynn being better offensively, how often did either of them bat leadoff? Wasn't that where Ichiro usually was in the order back then? As you mentioned, the Mariners were not very great then so he's not getting up a lot with people on base and chances to drive in runs. He's just trying to get on base, which he succeeded in doing a lot. As for walks, since he wasn't such a huge home run threat, and the rest of the team not that great as you say, I can see opposing pitchers pitching to him so he has to put the ball in play to get on, rather than letting him just walk a lot. Even so, he still lead the AL in intentional walks that year, but of course Bonds lead the majors with some ridiculously higher number.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by BobC

I know Dave, but he broke an all-time record and the best he could get was 7th for the MVP!?!?!? How often does someone break an all-time record like that? Just goes to show how everyone was so enamored with the PED users and the long ball back then.

And as for Boggs and Gwynn being better offensively, how often did either of them bat leadoff? Wasn't that where Ichiro usually was in the order back then? As you mentioned, the Mariners were not very great then so he's not getting up a lot with people on base and chances to drive in runs. He's just trying to get on base, which he succeeded in doing a lot. As for walks, since he wasn't such a huge home run threat, and the rest of the team not that great as you say, I can see opposing pitchers pitching to him so he has to put the ball in play to get on, rather than letting him just walk a lot. Even so, he still lead the AL in intentional walks that year, but of course Bonds lead the majors with some ridiculously higher number.

Ichiro not really a WAR darling, but with his defense that year, he had a pretty big number. I think if MVP was judged as it is nowadays, he would have had a much better showing. Might even have won it. Juan Gonzalez certainly wouldn’t have.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Ichiro not really a WAR darling, but with his defense that year, he had a pretty big number. I think if MVP was judged as it is nowadays, he would have had a much better showing. Might even have won it. Juan Gonzalez certainly wouldn’t have.

True that. I never said Ichiro should have gotten the MVP that year, just certainly not 7th in the voting. And why I added this to the discussion of most underrated hitting seasons of all time.

[jethrod3]

I agree with the comments about Ted. I'd argue that hitting .388 in 1957 at age 38 is probably something that is a tad bit underrated.

[lampertb]

Originally Posted by jethrod3

I agree with the comments about Ted. I'd argue that hitting .388 in 1957 at age 38 is probably something that is a tad bit underrated.

Agreed

[KCRfan1]

PACKS, that 1925 season of Joe Sewell is gold.

I remember an interview George Brett gave, and he said that when he played a strikeout was viewed as a failed at bat. You never wanted to back to the dugout after striking out because you had to face your teammates.

Those days are long gone....

[todeen]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Ichiro not really a WAR darling, but with his defense that year, he had a pretty big number. I think if MVP was judged as it is nowadays, he would have had a much better showing. Might even have won it. Juan Gonzalez certainly wouldn’t have.

Originally Posted by BobC

True that. I never said Ichiro should have gotten the MVP that year, just certainly not 7th in the voting. And why I added this to the discussion of most underrated hitting seasons of all time.

Ichiro once said in an interview if he wanted to hit me home runs he could, he just didn't want to. If you ever saw one of his HR, he could smash them pretty far. What a great player. His career is underrated because he likes to be in the shadows.

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[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by todeen

Ichiro once said in an interview if he wanted to hit me home runs he could, he just didn't want to. If you ever saw one of his HR, he could smash them pretty far. What a great player. His career is underrated because he likes to be in the shadows.

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Reminds me of the story when Ty Cobb decided to hit home runs:

Detroit was in Sportsman’s Park in St. Louis, to take on the Browns. The game of the 5th, a Tuesday, Cobb batted six times, with six hits. He also scored four runs and batted in five. But the big surprise was his three home runs. His other extra-base hit that day was a double, giving him 16 total bases, establishing a new modern major league record (the mark has since been tied, and broken, by several players; Shawn Green now holds the big league mark with 19). His three bombs tied him with four other players for the most in a modern-day game (One of the other players was Babe Ruth himself, a fact which must have tickled Cobb to no end.). Incidentally, the Tigers won the game, 14-8.

But Cobb’s hitting spree was far from over. In the next day’s game, also in St. Louis, he went 3-for-6, with two runs scored and six RBIs. He also clouted two more home runs. His five homers in two consecutive games was something that had never been done before, not even by the Bambino. It is a mark that has not been eclipsed to this day, although it has been equaled by 28 players.

Cobb’s two-day output reads thus: nine hits in 12 at-bats (.750), six runs, one double, five homers, 11 RBIs, 25 total bases. His nine hits were made consecutively. On the negative side of the ledger, he was caught stealing once. The Tigers also won the second game by a score of 11-4.

Of course, the footnote to the tale is that, just prior to the first game, Cobb was sitting in the dugout with a reporter and pointed out, “I’ll show you something today. I’m going for home runs for the first time in my career.” Whether the story is apocryphal or not, it makes for a great legend. It also proves that Cobb could indeed hit the long ball when he felt like it.

The next day, however, having proved his point, Cobb went right back to his old style. He did not hit another home run until June 2. He finished with 12 homers in 1925, equaling his career-high. But for at least two days in the middle of the new Home Run Era, Ty Cobb was just as powerful as the great Babe Ruth.

[lampertb]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Reminds me of the story when Ty Cobb decided to hit home runs:

His five homers in two consecutive games was something that had never been done before, not even by the Bambino. It is a mark that has not been eclipsed to this day, although it has been equaled by 28 players.

One of which I actually saw... summer of '91 at Riverfront, Barry Larkin hit 2 the day before, and I saw the next day's game when he hit 3 more against the Astros... still have the ticket stub in my wallet, actually.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by todeen

Ichiro once said in an interview if he wanted to hit me home runs he could, he just didn't want to. If you ever saw one of his HR, he could smash them pretty far. What a great player. His career is underrated because he likes to be in the shadows.

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That reminds me of Boggs. I believe he said the same thing, long before Ichiro....but I guess, long after Ty Cobb.

Boggs decided he was going to try and hit HR's in 1987. Banged out 24, and went back to his single digit usual output nearly every season after.

Oh, and under-rated seasons. That year he hit 24 HR's, he also led the league in BA .363, OBP .461, OPS 1.049, OPS+ 174 and WAR for a Position Player 8.3.

He came in 9th in the MVP voting that year.

[BobC]

This thread is about underrated "hitting" seasons, and one common recurring theme seems to be that unless your focus is on home runs, no one seems to care or pay much attention anymore. There are a lot of great hitters (and overall great players) who don't seem to get the credit they deserve because they're not bashing tape measure home runs all season long. Sad commentary on the state of the game.

And that Cobb story is a great example of how great hitters can be easily put down by others just because they don't focus on hitting home runs. Mentioned that same story to a Ruth fan here on the forum once before and got crap from them, accusing me of saying Cobb was better than Ruth and basically making fun of Cobb, and myself, for daring to somehow show up Ruth. I've always felt there's a huge difference between someone who doesn't do something because they can't do it, and someone who doesn't do something because they choose not to. And to go along with that Cobb story, don't forget Cobb hit those five homers over two games at the age of 38. A little past his prime, wouldn't you say? And also don't forget Cobb has a Triple Crown to his credit, something else Ruth failed to do at any time in his career.

To be a great hitter you at least need tremendous eyesight, hand-eye coordination, and bat speed. Having strength and power are great, but if you can't first get the bat on the ball, all the power and strength in the world (including that generated by PEDs) isn't worth squat. I remember at an early age being told hitting a baseball is one of the hardest things to do. You've got a round ball, and a round bat, and all everyone tells you to do is hit it squarely.