Ebay Authentication - It Gets Personal

[Yoda]

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

I wouldn't worry too much. Unfortunately Greg highly over graded a card to cause this problem. That is very rare for them so as long as the card matches the description you should be fine. Best of luck having many smooth transactions in the future.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

What's to fear? Worst case you get a full refund. And at that point if you still want the card you can probably arrange to buy it directly. This whole thread has me SMH honestly.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

Just ask Greg to relist it for $500 BIN using the word “authentic” in its description with no remark on the condition. It will then be re-evaluated for authenticity only by CSG and sent to you if its good. Problem solved, both parties happy.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Dead-Ball-Hitter

Just ask Greg to relist it for $500 BIN using the word “authentic” in its description with no remark on the condition. It will then be re-evaluated for authenticity only by CSG and sent to you if its good. Problem solved, both parties happy.

Have him list it with a 1988 Donruss common for the BIN and it will avoid the authentication service.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Have him list it with a 1988 Donruss common for the BIN and it will avoid the authentication service.

He could also list it by offering free local pickup or add “Pack” ( but not Pack Fresh) to the title.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

I honestly don't understand why you're angry. The service stopped you from receiving an inaccurately described item and gave you an instant refund.

Sure, YOU might be OK with getting a card that was overgraded and described incorrectly but the vast majority of people would not. AND you knew this was the process before your purchase.

This whole thing worked exactly as it's supposed to with exactly the right outcome.

[RCMcKenzie]

It's security theatre, and the buyer should have the option to waive the review service. "Yoda" was the original message board operator for baseball cards related to eBay. It would be like security at Minute Maid Park detaining Dusty Baker from entering the Astros clubhouse before a game.

I went through it once, and it was very, very nice. They sent my card in a presentation box with a note saying the card I bought from Dean's was "not only authentic, but very authentic, and congratulations on a fine choice."

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

Not sure why you're so unhappy that you ended up not paying more than you probably would have had the card been correctly graded initially. Also, there are currently several other 49 Bowman Spahns available on eBay (both raw and graded) that look like they are in comparable condition to the one you "won" and cost less than you bid so if you can't working something out with GM, there are other options available.

[Yoda]

I was angry at myself mainly because I failed to grasp the mechanics of the program and became confused. And then stupidly failed to reconcile the refund by checking the wrong bank statement. Ebay's program just seems so ponderous and not collector friendly. I will continue to use Greg, he has built a great company, but will check his grading far more closely so I don't have to go through all this another time.
Peter, I don't know what the the abbreviation SHM means. Perhaps you can enlighten me.
And, Joe, will try your approach. Makes sense, but I am not sure I even want the card anymore after all this.
Thanks to all Board members who offered constructive help.
Last post from me on this which should relieve everybody.

[Peter_Spaeth]

John -- SMH is shaking my head. Since the nonrefund was a false alarm, I still don't get why you would be upset that someone caught a problem with a card you bought, but that's just me. In any event, we'll move on.

[Jay Wolt]

One thing to consider about ebay's "guarantee" program,
the posters on N54 are pretty good about grading & understanding the nuances about cards.
What about if someone is just starting to collect or our wives wanted to get us an Xmas gift?
They would need the protection against scammers & over graders.
So I think it serves a useful purpose.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

John -- SMH is shaking my head. Since the nonrefund was a false alarm, I still don't get why you would be upset that someone caught a problem with a card you bought, but that's just me. In any event, we'll move on.

The problem isn’t that they caught a problem with the card though, it’s that they used that to unilaterally kill a deal the seller and buyer both wanted to happen anyways. I don’t think it’s a big deal for common cards, but for another example, most everything I buy over $250 is very rare and oft obscure.

~half of my buys in this range are in worse condition than the seller states. The seller says something like “appears excellent” and it has a pinhole and is clearly fair at best. I know this, I’m buying it anyways and don’t care about the sellers hyperbole because there is a clear picture and I know what I’m doing. Often times the card will be described wrong as to what it is, because it’s an obscure boxing piece and the seller doesn’t really know what it is. A lot of us don’t want eBay’s partners to unilaterally with no input from and against the express wishes of buyers, killing deals over a triviality. I don’t care what grade the seller who is not necessarily a card person described, or what they called the card. I might not see another for 2, 5, 10 years or even ever. It’s going to suck when CSG inevitably kills one of my deals like this. I’ve had good luck thus far pushing transactions off eBay (which I used to never do) to dodge it and the dice roll that they will or will not block me from taking possession of ‘my’ card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How did they kill it? If John still wants it he can buy it direct from Greg. They aren't burning the card at the stake.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How did they kill it? If John still wants it he can buy it direct from Greg. They aren't burning the card at the stake.

.... They forced the reversal of the transaction... They refund the buyer and send the card to the seller, nixing the deal. How are they NOT killing the sale? They could go do it offline, and breaking eBay's rules, I believe, but they are factually killing the deal. That much is not an opinion of whether this is good or bad or should be done.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Yeah, that would put the brakes on buying for me. I'd take about 6 months to a year off buying anything....Or maybe NEVER. E-bay should have refunded you immediately, but they don't know the meaning of the word. You'll get your money back after a little more aggravation.

AND the only reason to buy from Greg Morris in the past has been their fairly consistent grading. They don't miss many, but the other sellers are batting .056 with 500 strikeouts.

John did get the refund he said that he was looking in the wrong account.

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yoda must have lost the force. The refund was paid on 10/25 in full. I simply kept looking for it in the wrong account. So totally bad on my part. But I still hate Ebay's authentication program, wish I had my raw Spahny and am now hesitant to bid on any raw, high-value cards, even if I agree with Greg's grade, for fear it will be rejected by CSG.

[jchcollins]

I guess I didn't realize that if a raw card goes to CSG, they are both authenticating it AND matching up what the seller said it would grade? That must get interesting fast, since descriptions of raw cards on eBay many times don't conform to a TPG's 10 point scale. What if they said a card was EX, but in the opposite direction - CSG said no, this is NM! Would that be rejected for being the "wrong" grade even if it were higher? I once bought a '61 Willie Mays AS that was described as "EX" by an eBay outfit that was more of an antique mall than a pure card dealer. When I sent it off to SGC, it came back an 8. Would that have "failed" authentication?

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I guess I didn't realize that if a raw card goes to CSG, they are both authenticating it AND matching up what the seller said it would grade? That must get interesting fast, since descriptions of raw cards on eBay many times don't conform to a TPG's 10 point scale. What if they said a card was EX, but in the opposite direction - CSG said no, this is NM! Would that be rejected for being the "wrong" grade even if it were higher? I once bought a '61 Willie Mays AS that was described as "EX" by an eBay outfit that was more of an antique mall than a pure card dealer. When I sent it off to SGC, it came back an 8. Would that have "failed" authentication?

They aren't grading the card or making judgements on sellers grading, they make sure its not counterfeit and they match it to photos in the auction to make sure its the same card.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Jim65

They aren't grading the card or making judgements on sellers grading, they make sure its not counterfeit and they match it to photos in the auction to make sure its the same card.

This is not true. This is not what the raw program claimed to do - they are supposed to make sure the card matches the sellers description, including condition. Cards have been rejected for sellers over grading them, like the Bowman Spahn card.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by G1911

This is not true. This is not what the raw program claimed to do - they are supposed to make sure the card matches the sellers description, including condition. Cards have been rejected for sellers over grading them, like the Bowman Spahn card.

I can see where this would get super frustrating. Agreed that buyers should have an option to opt out of the authenticity guarantee. Some of the vintage cards I have seen thus far in CSG slabs are waaaaaay overgraded. I wouldn't want them casting judgement on raw cards that I bought online.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I can see where this would get super frustrating. Agreed that buyers should have an option to opt out of the authenticity guarantee. Some of the vintage cards I have seen thus far in CSG slabs are waaaaaay overgraded. I wouldn't want them casting judgement on raw cards that I bought online.

Do you have links you can share for the overgraded CSG slabs you've found? I've come across a couple, but not a lot. They've been pretty on point from most of what I've encountered.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Jim65

They aren't grading the card or making judgements on sellers grading, they make sure its not counterfeit and they match it to photos in the auction to make sure its the same card.

This is not true. In fact, the only cards I've purchased that were rejected were done so because of the condition not matching the description.

I even consigned some cards with Probstein that got rejected by CSG. When I looked at the listings, it was difficult to see that there were wrinkles (they were low-grade raw cards). He sent them back to me, and I relisted them myself and put "wrinkle" in the title and showed clear pics of the wrinkles and called them out in the description (something Probstein should have done as well). They passed authentication for me.