1902 Philadelphia Athletics Champions Baseball Team Photo/Composite w Plank Mack Wadd

Bicem · #1 11-20-2022, 10:28 PM

They are the same. Keep in mind one is an actual photo and one is a litho rendering of that photo that can contain changes or enhancements.

Bicem · #2 11-20-2022, 10:32 PM

These images were also used for the 1906 Lincoln Publishing postcards.

perezfan · #3 11-20-2022, 11:01 PM

Agree with Hank and Jeff. Same image, but higher resolution of the photo brings out details not readily visible in the litho.

BobC · #4 11-20-2022, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicem

They are the same. Keep in mind one is an actual photo and one is a litho rendering of that photo that can contain changes or enhancements.

Then they actually aren't the same photo, just a photo and a litho based off a photo. That makes more sense.

I fully understand touching up and resolution in creating a litho can cause some differences, but as much as there are between those two side by side images? Why for example would they have made some of the changes to the shape of his hair in some places? The photo on the left has more highlights and details, but why would they then in the photo on the right remove some of the curves/curls in the shape of his hair? Look at the hair in what would be the far upper left-hand side of Plank's head. The photo on the left shows two indentations, bumps, curls, whatever you want to call them, on the outside edge of his hair on the left-hand side of his face/head, while the litho image on the right only shows one. Is that a normal type of difference occurring when a litho is being made from a photo, to show some bumps/curls, but then remove or straighten out others?

mrreality68 · #5 11-21-2022, 05:26 AM

Very cool piece of history and amazingly in great shape for its age

Hankphenom · #6 11-21-2022, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobC

Then they actually aren't the same photo, just a photo and a litho based off a photo. That makes more sense.

I fully understand touching up and resolution in creating a litho can cause some differences, but as much as there are between those two side by side images? Why for example would they have made some of the changes to the shape of his hair in some places? The photo on the left has more highlights and details, but why would they then in the photo on the right remove some of the curves/curls in the shape of his hair? Look at the hair in what would be the far upper left-hand side of Plank's head. The photo on the left shows two indentations, bumps, curls, whatever you want to call them, on the outside edge of his hair on the left-hand side of his face/head, while the litho image on the right only shows one. Is that a normal type of difference occurring when a litho is being made from a photo, to show some bumps/curls, but then remove or straighten out others?

Probably because in the original photo, on the left here, his hair is mussed up noticeably on the left side and whoever was wielding the marker decided to take out the muss.

Mac927 · #7 11-21-2022, 09:51 AM

Thanks everyone for your help. Has anyone seen this particular composite photo before? I can't find it anywhere. I do agree that these are the original photos of the W600s.

I found the 1902 Horner Large Composite at REA. I also found the Macintire Waddell portrait using the same image that sold at Leland's but that's about it.

BobC · #8 11-21-2022, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Probably because in the original photo, on the left here, his hair is mussed up noticeably on the left side and whoever was wielding the marker decided to take out the muss.

You guys are probably right. It's obviously the same pose/sitting, but I can't help noticing all those subtle differences. Please forgive my bit of OCD. LOL

Hankphenom · #9 11-21-2022, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobC

You guys are probably right. It's obviously the same pose/sitting, but I can't help noticing all those subtle differences. Please forgive my bit of OCD. LOL

No problem at all, Bob, it's what a forum is all about, throwing in our two cents worth to try to try to add to hobby knowledge. You made me look more closely at them, otherwise I wouldn't have noticed the markings.

BobC · #10 11-21-2022, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

No problem at all, Bob, it's what a forum is all about, throwing in our two cents worth to try to try to add to hobby knowledge. You made me look more closely at them, otherwise I wouldn't have noticed the markings.

Never really gotten into the early photography/lithography differences, techniques, and so on. Honestly didn't immediately realize about the 2nd Plank image being a lithograph and not an actual photo. I saw the subtle differences and heard the OP mentioning photos, and I'm thinking both images are photos. Duh!

Of course, when prominent/celebrity people like Plank would go to a photographer to have their picture taken to be added onto team composites or otherwise included in/with other projects, wouldn't it make a lot of sense for the photographer to actually take a few photos of the subject, in case something goes wrong with the initial picture/negative or during the developing process? That way, if some accident happened, they wouldn't have to contact the subject and wait for them to come back in and re-shoot their picture to finish the team composite, or whatever. And if so, is it not also possible since there may have been multiple pictures/negatives available from the same session, the original photographer may have sent or forwarded copies/negatives of the additional photos to others for inclusion in other projects (such as creating a lithograph), and not necessarily sent/provided the exact same photo they had already used in something else, like that team composite? In such a case, the photos/images would be virtually identical because they were all taken at the same photo session, but there could still be some subtle differences since they wouldn't actually be the same exact same photos after all. Just thinking out loud.

RUKen · #11 11-22-2022, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobC

Of course, when prominent/celebrity people like Plank would go to a photographer to have their picture taken to be added onto team composites or otherwise included in/with other projects, wouldn't it make a lot of sense for the photographer to actually take a few photos of the subject, in case something goes wrong with the initial picture/negative or during the developing process? That way, if some accident happened, they wouldn't have to contact the subject and wait for them to come back in and re-shoot their picture to finish the team composite, or whatever. And if so, is it not also possible since there may have been multiple pictures/negatives available from the same session, the original photographer may have sent or forwarded copies/negatives of the additional photos to others for inclusion in other projects (such as creating a lithograph), and not necessarily sent/provided the exact same photo they had already used in something else, like that team composite? In such a case, the photos/images would be virtually identical because they were all taken at the same photo session, but there could still be some subtle differences since they wouldn't actually be the same exact same photos after all. Just thinking out loud.

I think that the negatives were glass plates, which were a lot bulkier than film, so the photographers were not inclined to take multiple exposures of the same subject.

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