Do you utilize a vault service for your cards?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

How bulletproof is a UCC filing in this situation?

And how much time/energy/work would it take to enforce your rights?

IMO a UCC filing is not necessary as a technical matter for reasons previously discussed at length, but it sure as hell cannot hurt, is inexpensive, and would make things cleaner should there be a problem. But to me that someone even needs to contemplate filing a UCC is a red flag that this is not a great idea.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

IMO a UCC filing is not necessary as a technical matter for reasons previously discussed at length, but it sure as hell cannot hurt, is inexpensive, and would make things cleaner should there be a problem. But to me that someone even needs to contemplate filing a UCC is a red flag that this is not a great idea.

Adam (exhibitman) seemed pretty convinced it was the smart thing to do, if I remember correctly, for anyone going to use one of these vaults. I agree with you, technically you don't/shouldn't need to do such a filing, but if something did end up happening with a vault owner/operator, I can see and understand how such a filing could help you in getting your cards/items back as quickly as possible, and with the least amount of potential hassle.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

Adam (exhibitman) seemed pretty convinced it was the smart thing to do, if I remember correctly, for anyone going to use one of these vaults. I agree with you, technically you don't/shouldn't need to do such a filing, but if something did end up happening with a vault owner/operator, I can see and understand how such a filing could help you in getting your cards/items back as quickly as possible, and with the least amount of potential hassle.

Yes i agree it's a smart thing to do, it makes documenting your ownership much easier for little time and money spent. What I don't know off the top of my head is how specific the filing needs to be, in other words, if your stored inventory changes constantly do you need to keep refiling/amending. I suspect the identification of what's yours needs to be precise but again I don't know that for sure.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes i agree it's a smart thing to do, it makes documenting your ownership much easier for little time and money spent. What I don't know off the top of my head is how specific the filing needs to be, in other words, if your stored inventory changes constantly do you need to keep refiling/amending. I suspect the identification of what's yours needs to be precise but again I don't know that for sure.

I'd posed that exact question to Adam, and he agreed you would want to try and keep the filings up to date with your actual inventory of items on file with the Secretary of State's office being as accurate as possible. As I mentioned to him though, I doubt if many people would ever spend the time, effort, and money, to continually keep doing this, let alone making the initial UCC filing to begin with. But if you have enough value in cards/items sitting in a vault somewhere, better safe than sorry, right?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

I'd posed that exact question to Adam, and he agreed you would want to try and keep the filings up to date with your actual inventory of items on file with the Secretary of State's office being as accurate as possible. As I mentioned to him though, I doubt if many people would ever spend the time, effort, and money, to continually keep doing this, let alone making the initial UCC filing to begin with. But if you have enough value in cards/items sitting in a vault somewhere, better safe than sorry, right?

Yes.

[Snowman]

I occasionally send cards to a PWCC vault if I'm looking to upgrade them in my collection. That way, as soon as I find a replacement for them, I can just send the current copy to auction right away and put those funds toward the upgraded copy. But that's pretty much the only thing I use the vault for. I prefer being able to actually look at and enjoy my collection.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I occasionally send cards to a PWCC vault if I'm looking to upgrade them in my collection. That way, as soon as I find a replacement for them, I can just send the current copy to auction right away and put those funds toward the upgraded copy. But that's pretty much the only thing I use the vault for. I prefer being able to actually look at and enjoy my collection.

interesting usage. Never thought of that.
Not sure if I would do it but I can see that as a strategic move

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

IMO a UCC filing is not necessary as a technical matter for reasons previously discussed at length, but it sure as hell cannot hurt, is inexpensive, and would make things cleaner should there be a problem. But to me that someone even needs to contemplate filing a UCC is a red flag that this is not a great idea.

Forgive me for not noting/bringing this up before, but isn't the idea and protection from such a UCC-1 filing then also technically applicable in the case of cards sent to a TPG for grading as well?

Obviously, this was much more pertinent during the recent height of the pandemic when cards were known to be in the possession of TPGs for in excess of a year in many cases. And even with the vastly reduced turnaround times TPGs have gotten back to today, there still exists the ever so faint risk one of them could suddenly go bankrupt (or maybe get raided and shut down by the FBI) and thus put one's recent submission at risk of not being promptly or properly returned. Any red flags for you there as well then?