1967 Topps 6th Series

[deweyinthehall]

I started assembling a visual of what we have so far. I spent a while reviewing this thread from start to finish (started by myself, bemoaning the price of 6th series cards - I managed to complete the set this summer) and have a couple of questions:

1) How was it determined that Willie Horton (and Rico Petrocelli thanks to a vertical miscut) are located at the far right edge of a row?
2) How was it determined that Reynolds-Landis-Martinez completes a row started by Mantilla and ended by the aforementioned Horton - how did those 3 cards get linked together, left to right?

I scoured the usual sources for new miscuts and found none. I did find these 2 Bill Monbouquettes for sale at Dean's presently (each listed in 'good' condition, yours for $6.75) - I don't know what the initials stand for, but I'm thinking some kid did NOT like Mr. Monbouquette...

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

1) How was it determined that Willie Horton (and Rico Petrocelli thanks to a vertical miscut) are located at the far right edge of a row?
2) How was it determined that Reynolds-Landis-Martinez completes a row started by Mantilla and ended by the aforementioned Horton - how did those 3 cards get linked together, left to right?

Kevvyg1026 and I don't have definitive proof that Petrocelli is the last card of the Pirates Rookie Stars row and that Horton is the last card of the Mantilla row, it is assumed for a few reasons, way back bxb supplied a miscut showing Petrocelli is above Horton, then someone else showed a scan of Horton with a recurring print flaw of a partially missing border line that usually results from being on the outer edge of a sheet, and I found a scan of a Petrocelli with a wavy right side that is synonymous with being on the left or right side from one of the two Slits that was cut in half by hand. It is very possible we are wrong but with the evidence especially the Petrocelli wavy cut side I am very confident they are both right edge cards. For quite a while (see post #115) I believed that the four card consecutive run of Landis-Martinez-Mazeroski-Bowens was in the Gary Bell row but when a Tommie Reynolds miscut popped up showing that it was at the top of a Slit I realized that I had a major flaw somewhere, I realized that Reynolds and Landis must be in the same row because there were miscuts of both showing that they were both in a row at the top of a Slit, the Bird Bombers row was at the top of one Slit and there can only be two different rows at the top of each Slit. The 33 card 1967 Topps proof sheet that Keith Olbermann spotted the "Tommy" Reynolds error card on at the auction in New York in 1989 has Tommie Reynolds (per Olbermann), Tony Perez, Harmon Killebrew, and Leo Durocher (per the catalog), so Kevvyg1026 and I have surmised that the three rows on the 33 card proof sheet are the 3x Tony Perez row, the 3x Pirates Rookie Stars row, and the 4x Felix Mantilla row, Perez is of course on the Tony Perez row, Durocher is on the Pirates Rookie Stars row, the not yet placed Killebrew is probably on the Tony Perez row, and the Reynolds is on the Felix Mantilla row. I think that is the only major change I have made so far, having the four card run incorrectly in the Gary Bell row and then correctly putting them in the Felix Mantilla row.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

2) How was it determined that Reynolds-Landis-Martinez completes a row started by Mantilla and ended by the aforementioned Horton - how did those 3 cards get linked together, left to right?

Landis is to the left of Martinez per the first miscut, Martinez is to the left of Mazeroski per the second miscut, Mazeroski is to the left of Bowens per the third miscut, Bowens is the left of Senators Rookie Stars per the fourth miscut. I knew that Reynolds had to be either to the left of Landis or to the right of the Senators Rookie Stars for the puzzle to fit, thank goodness I found the Tribe Hill Aces miscut from Elberson that shows Reynolds is to the right of Tribe Hill Aces which then puts Reynolds to the left of Landis to complete the row.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Thanks for this thread, gentlemen. I'm not currently collecting '67, but I very much enjoy this topic. I love this type of collecting and, as I get older, I prefer this type of collecting more and more. I used to think collecting wasn't much more than racking up one star card after another. Now, I see that stuff like this is where the collecting fun is for me.

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Landis is to the left of Martinez per the first miscut, Martinez is to the left of Mazeroski per the second miscut, Mazeroski is to the left of Bowens per the third miscut, Bowens is the left of Senators Rookie Stars per the fourth miscut. I knew that Reynolds had to be either to the left of Landis or to the right of the Senators Rookie Stars for the puzzle to fit, thank goodness I found the Tribe Hill Aces miscut from Elberson that shows Reynolds is to the right of Tribe Hill Aces which then puts Reynolds to the left of Landis to complete the row.

Ah...I didn't see the Landis miscut when reviewing this thread. Also, thank you for clearing up the Horton/Petrocelli issue.

[deweyinthehall]

OK - having reviewed this thread from start to finish and with the great detective work of so many contributing, here is what I believe we now have determined with regard to the 1967 Topps 6th series.

What follows is only a discussion of cards' placement within rows - nothing here about row placement on each slit. To get there we really need more data on the rows themselves (though we have some limited information due to top/bottom miscuts).

I am going to try to upload an image of what we have so far. If I have missed anything - PLEASE correct me.

First, along the top most row in the image, we have 7 groupings of 2 or 3 cards which we know were located side by side, but not in which row, nor in which slot (1-11) in what row. They are:
Killebrew/Tolan, Houk/Werhas, King/Campaneris/Gabrielson, Twins Rookies/Cloninger, Orioles Rookies/O'Toole, Lachemann/Giants Team and Dodgers Team/McFarlane.

Next, there seem to be 9 single cards for which we know nothing - nothing about the cards on any sides, not what rows, and certainly not in what slot (1-11) within any row:
Helms, Burgess, Barton, Indians Rookies, Lopez, Shaw, Griffith, Alou, Stephenson, Adair and Pirates Team

Next, we have all or part of 5 distinct rows (we know these are all different because of the overlap of the #3 card throughout) -
1) the complete row of Bird Bombers/Fisher/Menke/Hicks/Talbot/Hunt/Thomas/Marichal/Merritt/Santiago/Palmer;
2) Coombs/Rigney/Wert/McCovey in the 3-6 slots
3) Peterson/Wagner in the 2-3 slots
4) Mantilla/Alvis/Davidson/Hill Aces/Reynolds/Landis/Martinez/Mazeroski/Bowens/Senators Rookies in the 1-10 slots
5) Durocher/Arrigo in the 3-4 slots.

Finally, we have a series of single cards or pairs for which we know their slots, but not which rows - this does not suggest that Zimmerman/Dierker, for example, are in the 7th Series Checklist row, only that on some row, 7th Series Checklist/Wine are in the 1-2 slots and that on some other row (maybe the same row but we don't know) Zimmerman/Dierker are in the 7-8 slots and the Tigers Rookies is in the 11th slot. Similarly, Bell is not necessarily in the same row as Humpnhreys/Schoendienst - all we know for sure is Bell is in the 1 slot on some row, and Humphreys/Schoendienst are in the 9-10 slots on some row (possible the same row, but no way to know at this time.)

This is my attempt to do tribute to the work of others here in this forum so again - PLEASE point out where I've erred.

[Kevvyg1026]

Actually, this is what Cliff & I currently believe the layout looks like. This is not confirmed yet, so it is subject to possible change. However, it explains the miscuts we have, the wrong backs, the top of slit cuts, etc. There are still 18 cards pending placement.

1967 6th series_possible_layout.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

Actually, this is what Cliff & I currently believe the layout looks like. This is not confirmed yet, so it is subject to possible change. However, it explains the miscuts we have, the wrong backs, the top of slit cuts, etc. There are still 18 cards pending placement.

Attachment 547369

Awesome!! I think it's safe to place Felipe Alou in the 7 slot of the Bell row and Indians Rookie Stars in the 10 slot of the Bell row, they are the two cards remaining that are available in much larger quantities than the other remaining cards on eBay, COMC, Dean's, and the card under Santiago must be a non regular player card, i.e. a 'special' card.

[deweyinthehall]

The card under Santiago has to be Schoendienst - we know he occupies an 11 slot like Santiago, and there are no other "specials" for which we don't know the slot placement - Bird Belters, Hill Aces, Rigney and Durocher are all accounted for.

And I noticed I placed Durocher/Arrigo in the 3/4 slots and not the 4/5 slots where they belong.