Greg Morris - Trimmed Card? Proper Response?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

Yes. Tip Tops donÂ’t come this hugely short naturally. Anything is of course possible, maybe its unique! I would think most people would use a reasonable standard, in which a card this hugely short is very very unlikely to be unaltered. It is certainly more reasonable to act as if this card is trimmed than it is to act as if it is not.

Let’s say it is unaltered, just for giggles. As far as I am aware Morris never admits any card he sells is altered at all - he grades it and puts “minimum size” next to his grade range. Where is that?

Again, not a single person has claimed or implied Morris and Jaimet have risen to the same level of indiscretion. What was actually said, is that this policy being argued by a previous poster who has left the conversation now is 100% exactly the same as the Jaimet standard of disclosure we were all having a good laugh over. That a seller need not disclose alteration if they refund a buyer who catches it and complains. People seem to find the exact same standard reasonable and unreasonable based on who they are used to benefit.

In my first post I stated I do not know this particular issue certainly not well enough to know what is typical or not for the issue. What I do know is that I have seen lots of vintage issues have cards which are small, as well as large, which have cuts that are 100% consistent with properly sized cards from the same issue. Size to me is meaningless unless someone shows a scan of the card before and a card after where something changed or unless the cut is consistent with what a trim job looks like.

I am not Greg Morris Cards' lawyer but he does apparently list cards as altered (in the title) as well as disclosing other material info about a card. To know this one simply has to look at any of his listings and see the FAQ where he details these disclosures. I cannot speak to this particular card as to why it was not stated it is small or trimmed, assuming that it is. I suspect the person answering questions on eBay is not the same person who has the authority to amend listings. Maybe they took it upon themselves to not raise the issue with someone who might have amended the listing.

I guess I am not as black and white as you. In this case, right or wrong, if I am not comfortable with this card I am not bidding regardless of the return privilege or what I have been told. Again, call me stupid, stubborn or but I really do not see the Jaimet comparison as applicable given the circumstances in their history in the hobby which exist for these two sellers. Jaimet is a sole proprietor with a horrible reputation and is entirely untrustworthy. GMC is a company who has a terrific reputation who has always stood behind what they sell. That you see their responses are the same or similar is taking this out of context at least how I judge situations where I might not agree with how something was handled.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

In my first post I stated I do not know this particular issue certainly not well enough to know what is typical or not for the issue. What I do know is that I have seen lots of vintage issues have cards which are small, as well as large, which have cuts that are 100% consistent with properly sized cards from the same issue. Size to me is meaningless unless someone shows a scan of the card before and a card after where something changed or unless the cut is consistent with what a trim job looks like.

I am not Greg Morris Cards' lawyer but he does apparently list cards as altered (in the title) as well as disclosing other material info about a card. To know this one simply has to look at any of his listings and see the FAQ where he details these disclosures. I cannot speak to this particular card as to why it was not stated it is small or trimmed, assuming that it is. I suspect the person answering questions on eBay is not the same person who has the authority to amend listings. Maybe they took it upon themselves to not raise the issue with someone who might have amended the listing.

I guess I am not as black and white as you. In this case, right or wrong, if I am not comfortable with this card I am not bidding regardless of the return privilege or what I have been told. Again, call me stupid, stubborn or but I really do not see the Jaimet comparison as applicable given the circumstances in their history in the hobby which exist for these two sellers. Jaimet is a sole proprietor with a horrible reputation and is entirely untrustworthy. GMC is a company who has a terrific reputation who has always stood behind what they sell. That you see their responses are the same or similar is taking this out of context at least how I judge situations where I might not agree with how something was handled.

Again, the claim to fact actually made was true. The previous posters proposal is the exact same as the Jaimet standard that was mocked. 100% the same. My opinion of that is that this standard is poor and unethical.

GMC’s terrific reputation, your bidding practices, anybody’s stupidity or stubbornness, your opinion that a card cannot be called trimmed without before and after photos (I have never seen this as a standard before - I guess I don’t need to disclose a trimmed card since I don’t have B&A’s of trimmed cards I own), are very different points and topics from the claim actually made. You are arguing statements the transcript shows were not ever made.

[darwinbulldog]

Looks like they ended the auction.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Looks like they ended the auction.

That makes sense. The card would have failed the authentication process, so this saves time and effort of the potential buyer, ebay, CSG and GM themselves.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

Again, the claim to fact actually made was true. The previous posters proposal is the exact same as the Jaimet standard that was mocked. 100% the same. My opinion of that is that this standard is poor and unethical.

GMC’s terrific reputation, your bidding practices, anybody’s stupidity or stubbornness, your opinion that a card cannot be called trimmed without before and after photos (I have never seen this as a standard before - I guess I don’t need to disclose a trimmed card since I don’t have B&A’s of trimmed cards I own), are very different points and topics from the claim actually made. You are arguing statements the transcript shows were not ever made.

Not really but you love to argue...I mean debate...so I concede.

[G1911]

The surely properly listed and disclosed Clemente “auto” has also been pulled as well, it appears.

[JollyElm]

Wait, every questionable card 'outed' here on net54 is suddenly being taken down?? Gentlemen, I do declare that GM has a mole in our ranks!!!!!!!!!!!