Trading Card Database

[BobC]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

You can step into them and claim copyright protections. As an owner of the pictures, you have that right.

Butch,

Is that actually true? For example, if you buy a card from an auction house that keeps an archive of their auctions, including images of items sold, up and online, how can you as the current owner of that card/item force them to take the image down, or otherwise ensure that no one else can/use copy the image?

Same thing I guess when someone posts an image here on the forum, how do you go about stopping someone else from copying and using it? Couldn't someone simply claim they acquired/copied the image prior to your taking ownership of the card/item? And of course, the legal cost of trying to go back at someone for such an infringement is not going to be nominal either, and would likely deter most people from ever really doing anything about someone else using their photos/images of cards/items they own.

I'm asking this as a serious question also, as I am not that knowledgeable when it comes to copyright laws and infringements in regard to photos and images of items owned by someone, especially when there can also be numerous photo/image copies all over the internet prior to someone's actually acquiring the original item/image itself.

[abothebear]

I joined a year ago and have traded nearly 100 times. It is fun if you both want to unload post-war stuff and also want to get some post war stuff. Pre-war isn’t nearly as represented, but most cards there are inexpensive cards, so that’s part of it. But if you do have pre-war you want to trade for something newer, people love being able to trade for the old stuff. People love trading over there in general, and there is always someone who wants even the junkiest junk wax cards. It is time consuming though, to learn to enter your lists, field or propose trade offers, counter, counter, check other options, accept, mail, etc. I’ve had to put trading on hold a few times just because I was spending too much time on it. I’ve also bought and sold over there and it is easy. I’d suggest reviewing feedback on anyone you are thinking about making a deal with. And sometimes it is good to read the message boards because you’ll find threads pointing out a rotten apple, and often you’ll find a commenter there with a signature listing other bad apples he’s encountered. Also, always ask for pictures of any cards you are dealing for. There are a surprising number of traders who don’t give a lock about condition. I’ve made a few trades where some cards from the group I received went right into the bin. It is weird throwing a Smoltz RC away, but even in great condition it isn’t worth anything, one with a water stain is straight garbage. Lots of great people over there though.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by BobC

Butch,

Is that actually true? For example, if you buy a card from an auction house that keeps an archive of their auctions, including images of items sold, up and online, how can you as the current owner of that card/item force them to take the image down, or otherwise ensure that no one else can/use copy the image?

Same thing I guess when someone posts an image here on the forum, how do you go about stopping someone else from copying and using it? Couldn't someone simply claim they acquired/copied the image prior to your taking ownership of the card/item? And of course, the legal cost of trying to go back at someone for such an infringement is not going to be nominal either, and would likely deter most people from ever really doing anything about someone else using their photos/images of cards/items they own.

I'm asking this as a serious question also, as I am not that knowledgeable when it comes to copyright laws and infringements in regard to photos and images of items owned by someone, especially when there can also be numerous photo/image copies all over the internet prior to someone's actually acquiring the original item/image itself.

Bob,

This is a picture that you take and then post to your own web site. You own the rights to that picture that you take and publish. If someone (auction house) takes a picture of your card, they own the rights to that picture that they publish. Now with the metadata that is captured within a picture, it is actually easier to trace its origin than it has been in years past.

Pictures that you take and upload to sites like this one tend to become property of Leon. You/we may have agreed to release rights to a picture once it is uploaded to this site. But as a web site owner, if you take a picture and upload it to your website the rights to that photo belong to you.

This is how I understood it to be when I was getting school learned years ago.

https://www.pixsy.com/academy/image-...righted%20work.

Butch

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BobC

Butch,

Is that actually true? For example, if you buy a card from an auction house that keeps an archive of their auctions, including images of items sold, up and online, how can you as the current owner of that card/item force them to take the image down, or otherwise ensure that no one else can/use copy the image?

Same thing I guess when someone posts an image here on the forum, how do you go about stopping someone else from copying and using it? Couldn't someone simply claim they acquired/copied the image prior to your taking ownership of the card/item? And of course, the legal cost of trying to go back at someone for such an infringement is not going to be nominal either, and would likely deter most people from ever really doing anything about someone else using their photos/images of cards/items they own.

I'm asking this as a serious question also, as I am not that knowledgeable when it comes to copyright laws and infringements in regard to photos and images of items owned by someone, especially when there can also be numerous photo/image copies all over the internet prior to someone's actually acquiring the original item/image itself.

You own the item not previously made images.

[G1911]

TCDB has a BST forum just like Net54, which is what people are talking about. Link is: https://www.tcdb.com/Forum.cfm/Page/...ll-Trade-Forum

Not sure if you need to be a member to see it, that might be the problem.

[Mungo Hungo]

If you click on a specific card, you should see a link for “Mentions,” which lists members who have the card, are looking for the card and have the card for trade (or sale). You can then generate a list of the cards on your own to-trade list that are on the want lists of members who have the card you’re looking for. You can then propose a trade by sending a transaction proposal to the other member. Or offer to purchase.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Mungo Hungo

If you click on a specific card, you should see a link for “Mentions,” which lists members who have the card, are looking for the card and have the card for trade (or sale). You can then generate a list of the cards on your own to-trade list that are on the want lists of members who have the card you’re looking for. You can then propose a trade by sending a transaction proposal to the other member. Or offer to purchase.

Thanks for the information. Do you know how I would add a card to my want list?

[Mungo Hungo]

If you’re logged in, you’ll see a blue bar somewhere below the card image that says “Update your collection.” Above that, there’s a drop-down box that allows you to add that card to your want list, trade list, etc.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Mungo Hungo

If you’re logged in, you’ll see a blue bar somewhere below the card image that says “Update your collection.” Above that, there’s a drop-down box that allows you to add that card to your want list, trade list, etc.

Got it, thanks.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

You own the item not previously made images.

Thanks Scott, I probably was not all that clear about that.

Regards,

Butch

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

You own the item not previously made images.

That's what I thought. Can't imagine the nightmare that would ensue if someone acquiring an original item could go back and ban others from using images of it online and elsewhere.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by BobC

Butch,

Is that actually true? For example, if you buy a card from an auction house that keeps an archive of their auctions, including images of items sold, up and online, how can you as the current owner of that card/item force them to take the image down, or otherwise ensure that no one else can/use copy the image?

Same thing I guess when someone posts an image here on the forum, how do you go about stopping someone else from copying and using it? Couldn't someone simply claim they acquired/copied the image prior to your taking ownership of the card/item? And of course, the legal cost of trying to go back at someone for such an infringement is not going to be nominal either, and would likely deter most people from ever really doing anything about someone else using their photos/images of cards/items they own.

I'm asking this as a serious question also, as I am not that knowledgeable when it comes to copyright laws and infringements in regard to photos and images of items owned by someone, especially when there can also be numerous photo/image copies all over the internet prior to someone's actually acquiring the original item/image itself.

My laymans understanding is that you couldn't prevent someone from copying and using an auction house photo of something you now own. But the auction house could.

Likewise, I have created very nearly all the scans I post here. So I have some copyright on those images. For stuff that has a current rights holder it's possible that my scans of say a Topps card infringe their copyright. But I'm probably ok under fair use. That being said, if Topps complained I'd take the scans down until we sorted things out. It's the simplest and cheapest.

The question though is that while I created them I freely shared them on a free message board. And I have no illusion that scans of my cards have any legitimate commercial value. So if someone uses them so much the better.
(I ran across a prettied up version of a scan I did well over a decade ago of a bicycle companys internal message to dealers about a new serial number system. Commented that it was cool seeing my scan still circulating. The guy who had it seemed at first confused, then a bit hesitant until I explained that yes, I made the original scan and still owned the original document, and that I had absolutely no problem with it being distributed as widely as possible. )

Then there's issues of rights to publicise an image, especially in NY... One of the reasons I believe that no high res scans are available of the Burdick collection anymore. Or the baseball portion at any rate. I used to be able to get some great T206 images for commons, but not HOFers. Now it's low res for everything.

[steve B]

I should be more clear, Copyright technically exists the moment you create something that can be copywritten. But there are very few protections.

To get the protections I'd have to register the copyright with the government.

[DaClyde]

As a frequent contributor there, TCDB is easily the top site for everything non-mainstream. Beckett long ago abandoned cataloging oddball, minor league or non-American sets. TCDB has hundreds, if not thousands, of sets catalogued that Beckett has either ignored, or only has extremely incomplete listings.

Crowdsourcing is not a strike against the site, it is the site's strength, and is the main way to ensure the listings are accurate. Beckett still includes errors from 20-30 years ago in their listings, with little hope of correction (looking at you
1990 Classic Blue #133A Hensley Meulens ERR that doesn't exist, or any of their garbage Japanese set listings). I suspect some of those were added as copy protection, but now that no one needs to copy their database anymore, they are just a data quality issue.

TCDB may not be perfect, but no site is. It is likely the most comprehensive, English-language resource on the web, right now. I joined explicitly to have a place where I could catalogue my player collections, right down to the most obscure oddball.

One of the problems with for-profit sites, is that once the buyouts begin, the product immediately ceases to be the driver, and profit is the only consideration, often driving a site or company right into the ground. As long as those equity bros get their slice, the customers and the product don't matter.

There are likely as many people who want Beckett to improve and succeed as there are who want the same for TCDB. Unfortunately they have no avenue to help Beckett, aside from paying for their products. Anyone can help improve TCDB. Crowdsourcing is also a big reason COMC was able to get away from Beckett's data and win that lawsuit. I feed bad for the folks who work at Beckett, trying their best, and only being allowed to contribute the bare minimum by management that understands only profits.

Hopefully once TCDB moves to a new hosting provider, the site will stabilize again.