Red Sun - Is it really a Louisiana exclusive?

tedzan · #1 03-06-2023, 09:40 AM

Hi Leon....I like them, too.

Here is my Ed Greminger run.

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TED Z

T206 Reference
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G1911 · #2 03-15-2023, 06:40 PM

Here's some of the "puglistic" subjects. Someone at ALC or Brett or whoever wasn't a good speller.

Some of the boxers are evidently short printed. The 1908 date placed on them is another hobby fiction. They are almost certainly Q2 1910 or later.

The two cards of Mike and Jack Sullivan, twins, use the same exact photograph cropped differently. I'm 90% sure it's actually Jack on both cards.

gabrinus · #3 03-15-2023, 08:01 PM

That's cool Greg...Jerry

jingram058 · #4 03-16-2023, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

Here's some of the "puglistic" subjects. Someone at ALC or Brett or whoever wasn't a good speller.

Some of the boxers are evidently short printed. The 1908 date placed on them is another hobby fiction. They are almost certainly Q2 1910 or later.

The two cards of Mike and Jack Sullivan, twins, use the same exact photograph cropped differently. I'm 90% sure it's actually Jack on both cards.

Pretty amazing collection!

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that I have seen way more Red Sun pugilists than ballplayers.

G1911 · #5 03-16-2023, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingram058

Pretty amazing collection!

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that I have seen way more Red Sun pugilists than ballplayers.

I don't really know the baseball's as well to estimate, but pop reports are very very similar between T211 and T226. The supply in Red Sun boxers has been very high the last couple years due to a couple sell-offs of collections, which is how I built this many up. There was a pretty sizable supply of them in 2011-2013 range as well. People have tended to build up a number and then sell them off, so we see the same handful of copies cycling every few years. I think been more stacks like I have with the boxing, than with the baseball where there is a lot more of the cards in type collections rather than in set collections. I still need a T211 type someday.

I note the boxers do not come with the 'fat borders' that you see on the baseball subjects, like the three shown here. Even your handcut or trimmed Babb has significantly thicker borders. I like the thick borders.

I would estimate no more than 30 copies each of the white boxers in the hobby (some of which may be short printed to some extent as well); pop's max out at about 15 and the majority of these in the hobby seem to have entered slabs. Most of these 34 are crackouts. Adam and some of the other boxing guys probably have a better guesstimate than I. Any of of our T211 collectors have population estimates for the Southern subjects? The evidence that the 4 black 'puglistic subjects' were short printed is compelling, I think. It probably indicates some very interesting distribution pattern, but that is conjecture. The sheet layout must have been bizarre.

Pat R · #6 03-16-2023, 06:24 PM

It appears that The Universal Tobacco Company was another Tobacco Company that was actually owned by the ATC either from the beginning or a lot longer than it would seem.

Nov 22 1901
The_Gazette_Fri__Nov_22__1901_.jpg

G1911 · #7 03-16-2023, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat R

It appears that The Universal Tobacco Company was another Tobacco Company that was actually owned by the ATC either from the beginning or a lot longer than it would seem.

Nov 22 1901

This is great. Looks like the formal reorganization in 1904 took considerably longer than I would have expected and they controlled it well before then.

steve B · #8 03-17-2023, 10:27 AM

It's a bit amazing just how much ATC controlled.

Outside of that control, just my thinking on distribution. I'd have to really get very far into who was who and how distribution happened in that industry at the time to have much confidence.

I think outside of the ATC influence if there was any outside of that at all, each factory producing a small brand would have a distribution area. Sort of like how some large businesses today have distributors with a territory.
So Red Sun being packed and shipped from a Louisiana factory would have been sent/sold to the distributors for that factory.

If I was running the brand, I'd also want to line up distributors in major cities people local to my region might travel to since they might want to buy a familiar brand on say a trip to NY or Chicago or DC. But not to distributors in smaller cities or towns outside the usual area.

The larger brands would have more national distribution, so no matter what factory produced them, Piedmonts would get shipped to ATC distributors nearly everywhere.

There wouldn't be much reason to pack differently for different distributors. It's much more efficient to pack everything the same. The only exception would be the really interesting T206 note saying packing for not the Philadelphia area.

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