Health of Asset Class - Over/Under 1955 Topps Koufax PSA 9

joshuanip · #1 04-09-2023, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

One of the things I've noticed about crypto and meme stocks and card investing is how similarly the participants behave. There is an almost palpable sense of giving the middle finger to The Man in all of it, hence the hostility of the young towards mainstream investments like mutual funds. The card 'bros i see at shows would be right at home selling weed. Same style as the drug dealers who used to supply our highs in college. That makes it harder to promote an investment angle on cards. Too many players want to be 'playas', not investors, and stubbornly resist efforts to professionalize the hobby or make it look like a mainstream investment. So many collectors also like the sheer transgressiveness of buying and selling in cash in a field without much regulation. It gives them that "G's and keys" swagger to throw around cash, feel like a street guy, but with cards and without any real danger. Look at some of the linguistic stylings of the hobby: buyer's premium is "vig", cards are "product", etc. The fact that the authorities don't really seem to care actually is a selling point.

The Singer interview in the current WSJ is apt. Fed�s response to every crisis is to print money and the rise of crypto is a libertarian impulse for the disdain on the fed�s disrespect to fiat currency� article is bearish on crypto which I agree on, it root principles to crypto and art/cards are the same. An alternative store of value. But art and cards have another thing going for them, they can�t be produced in any more quantities that that exist out there. There will be �finds� but supply is pretty much set (sans e98 prior to bsf). And there is something tangible to the asset unlike �ether� assets.

Always thought and still think employment is the highest coefficient in card prices (as it affects demand (by people�s wherewithal) and supply (as people need to sell to fund cost of living). And with that metric we�re doing pretty good.

Of course there�s asset beta, which is what we are feeling today, as people �trade� based on how far cards appreciated and where they think cards will go. But as a long term driver, it�s hard to argue against the initial point as to why cards are a good store of value in a diversified asset portfolio.

Exhibitman · #2 04-10-2023, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuanip

The Singer interview in the current WSJ is apt. Fed’s response to every crisis is to print money and the rise of crypto is a libertarian impulse for the disdain on the fed’s disrespect to fiat currency… article is bearish on crypto which I agree on, it root principles to crypto and art/cards are the same. An alternative store of value. But art and cards have another thing going for them, they can’t be produced in any more quantities that that exist out there. There will be “finds” but supply is pretty much set (sans e98 prior to bsf). And there is something tangible to the asset unlike “ether” assets.

Always thought and still think employment is the highest coefficient in card prices (as it affects demand (by people’s wherewithal) and supply (as people need to sell to fund cost of living). And with that metric we’re doing pretty good.

Of course there’s asset beta, which is what we are feeling today, as people “trade” based on how far cards appreciated and where they think cards will go. But as a long term driver, it’s hard to argue against the initial point as to why cards are a good store of value in a diversified asset portfolio.

It is hard to argue against alternative value stores in inflationary times. Whether it is a store or a scam is the question and at least with a card (or gold or real estate) there is something tangible, as long as you actually have possession of it. The rest is just speculating on the potential gains of one asset versus another over time. For example, I wouldn't have wanted to invest in New York City commercial real estate in 2019. It may be tangible but remote working has made a disaster of it. I'll say one thing for cards in particular:

They're a lot prettier to look at than a deed.

Rhotchkiss · #3 04-20-2023, 06:55 PM

Over/Under on the PSA 1955 Koufax in Goldin was set at $345k.

We are at $258k w/ BP on the one in REA, with 4 days left.

I took the under, but doubting that a little

MACollector · #4 04-20-2023, 11:38 PM

A Paige mint 9 just sold for $211k at Mile High. A stones throw away from the last sale of $228k which was the only post-pandemic sale and up 7x from the last time one sold in 2018! So the super high end rare stuff is certainly strong. The less rare stuff not so much it seems. I noticed the Seaver rookie for instance still is well off it�s highs from the past few year as one example of a card that while isn�t rare with around 100 mint example, still doesn�t come up every other auction.

Exhibitman · #5 04-21-2023, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACollector

I noticed the Seaver rookie for instance still is well off it�s highs from the past few year as one example of a card that while isn�t rare with around 100 mint example, still doesn�t come up every other auction.

One thing I've thought about is whether being on a multiiplayer RC hurts value. Just seems that quite a few of the "gee, that should cost more" postwar rookies are multiplayer cards.

MACollector · #6 04-21-2023, 09:23 PM

It certainly hasn't hurt the Ryan rookie being a multiplayer card....

Republicaninmass · #7 04-22-2023, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACollector

It certainly hasn't hurt the Ryan rookie being a multiplayer card....

Also, they have been many huge finds of High grade 1968 topps. That also must weigh on prices

rjackson44 · #8 04-21-2023, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Over/Under on the PSA 1955 Koufax in REA was set at $345k.

We are at $258k w/ BP, with 4 days left.

I took the under, but doubting that a little

hi whos buying these cards hedge funds,high end collectors ,,who lol..i just bought a 48 leaf joe gordon almost had a heart attack.

Johnny630 · #9 04-21-2023, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjackson44

hi whos buying these cards hedge funds,high end collectors ,,who lol..i just bought a 48 leaf joe gordon almost had a heart attack.

They seem to change hands like musical chairs from auction house to auction house.

rjackson44 · #10 04-21-2023, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny630

They seem to change hands like musical chairs from auction house to auction house.

hi johnny your correct about that and the new stuff trades at huge loses

Johnny630 · #11 04-21-2023, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjackson44

hi johnny your correct about that and the new stuff trades at huge loses

Agree 100% Rjackson
So is some, key word some of the vintage� 52 Mays PSA 8 and 52 Jackie PSA 8 well off their highs. A couple ended last night

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