S74-2 silks info needed

Silverskulls · #1 04-15-2023, 07:46 PM

Thanks everyone for sharing the great info in this thread. I�m pretty new to silks and found it really helpful, especially because the one that really sparked my interest is a Hal Chase that I recently picked up at a local card show.

Photos of the raw silk attached here.

Appears to be a 1911 S74-2 Hal Chase (Old Mill) in a blood red color with dark blue ink (the colored ones were all issued w/o paper backs). Thanks to N54 member Bob C for the intel on the three ink colors used.

After reviewing auction records, Google image, S74silk.com and Net54, I have not seen another Chase with this specific combination of red silk and dark blue (which also looks like black) ink. The blood red silk is not to be confused with the light pink silk that also exists (S74silk.com names them pink and red).

The closest I�ve seen is this (not my card) BVG slabbed Hal Chase in the same color silk but printed in red ink: https://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/4615845011/

S74silk.com has a Doolan with this red silk/blue ink combo: http://www.s74silk.com/coloredsilks/

Here�s a quilt with a Larry Doyle and John Hummel on red silk with blue ink: https://www.invaluable.com/v2/auctio...0-c-38f4573902

Has anyone else seen an S74 Hal Chase on red silk with blue ink? Or any other players?

Thanks in advance for any info!

Justin

PS, for anyone interested, there�s also this newer thread from 2023 about silks too:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...highlight=Silk

BobC · #2 04-15-2023, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverskulls

Thanks everyone for sharing the great info in this thread. I�m pretty new to silks and found it really helpful, especially because the one that really sparked my interest is a Hal Chase that I recently picked up at a local card show.

Photos of the raw silk attached here.

Appears to be a 1911 S74-2 Hal Chase (Old Mill) in a blood red color with black ink (the colored ones were all issued w/o paper backs).

After reviewing auction records, Google image, S74silk.com and Net54, I have not seen another Chase with this specific combination of red silk and black ink. The blood red silk is not to be confused with the light pink silk that also exists (S74silk.com names them pink and red).

The closest I�ve seen is this (not my card) BVG slabbed Hal Chase in the same color silk but printed in red ink: https://www.flickr.com/photos/calvindog/4615845011/

S74silk.com has a Doolan with this red silk/black ink combo: http://www.s74silk.com/coloredsilks/

Here�s a quilt with a Larry Doyle and John Hummel on red silk with black ink: https://www.invaluable.com/v2/auctio...0-c-38f4573902

Has anyone else seen an S74 Hal Chase on red silk with black ink? Or any other players?

Thanks in advance for any info!

Justin

PS, for anyone interested, there�s also this newer thread from 2023 about silks too:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...highlight=Silk

Hey Justin,

Great Chase silk. The deep red colored S74-2s are one of the rarer material colors to find. Yours has a bit of fading it looks like, which isn't all that unusual as they are over 100 years old. But the image is NOT printed with black ink, it just looks like black ink because it was originally printed on a dark red material. As previously mentioned, they only used three different ink colors for the images on both the S74-1 white silks, and the S74-2 colored version silks: blue, brown and a red/rust color. My guess is yours may have been the blue ink version, which when printed on the dark red material makes it look black. And the fading probably didn't help as it likely took out some of the shine/luster of the blue ink, and left the duller, blackish looking color behind.

When the brown or red/rust color inks were used on these dark red colored material silks, it was often kind of tough to actually make out the player's images and the tobacco brand names on them. Maybe a reason why you don't see the dark red material silks that often, as the manufacturers quickly realized they didn't always present the images and writing very well. And since they made these to be used in sewing and creating things for around the house, that would have been a possible turn off for the ladies using them in their sewing projects, and thus causing the manufacturers to not use the dark red material that much.

BobC · #3 04-15-2023, 09:16 PM

When you do come across a dark red colored material S74-2 silk that has escaped fading, the dark red really sticks out and pretty much overshadows whatever color ink was used.

Again, nice Chase silk. You do have the very typical fraying at the top and bottom, but the tobacco brand name and factory designation are both clear and complete, with no fraying to either of them, which is what you want to see. Also, you can still see some of the darker colored red silk material at the very top and very bottom of the silks that shows where they had applied whatever it was to help stop the fraying when the silk was originally cut. Whenever you are looking for the colored S74-2 version silks, you want to see as little (to no) fraying as possible, and these darker material stripes across the very top and bottom as fully intact as possible.

nolemmings · #4 04-15-2023, 09:31 PM

I have a Wiltse that is unlike any of my other silks. First, it feels like it is on different fabric. Second, it's almost as if was cut the other way. The top and bottom, often the subject of fraying, look as if they couldn't fray much if they tried while the sides look otherwise.

BobC · #5 04-15-2023, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I have a Wiltse that is unlike any of my other silks. First, it feels like it is on different fabric. Second, it's almost as if was cut the other way. The top and bottom, often the subject of fraying, look as if they couldn't fray much if they tried while the sides look otherwise.

Hmmm, that is interesting. And possibly because they accidently turned the material when it was put in for printing. If you ever look at the S72 actress silks, that are also mentioned as part of this overall issue along with the S74 baseball player silks, they normally are like this also, with the fraying most always on the sides, and not at the tops and bottoms. My understanding is that the material that is woven to make these silks will often have a much tighter weave going either horizontally or vertically, and that that tighter weave causes the material to be less likely to ever fray. It seems that it just depends on which way they fed the material for the printing of the images. To my knowledge though, I'm not aware of any premium normally being attributed to a silk like this with a sort of reverse fraying to it.

Very nice Wiltse silk and pickup, that's a keeper.

BobC · #6 04-15-2023, 09:53 PM

.

Silverskulls · #7 04-16-2023, 09:05 AM

Thanks for all of the helpful info, Bob! Really appreciate it!

ricktmd · #8 04-16-2023, 11:05 AM

Mike,

A few of the larger collectors and myself put together a master check list a few years back using our own collections and auction lot history. No S74-1 Chase silks are listed with Red Sun or Helmar backs. Also, no blue ink printed Chase S74-1 silks are notated on my list with any back. I still find unknown variations as I recently picked up a White with blue ink OM back and an Overall blue ink TR (no frame) back. Neither were on the master list. They are unique or previously undiscovered finds. I think it is possible you will find a blue ink S74-1 Chase silk. As far as finding one with a Red Sun or Helmar back, that is possible, but any Red Sun is very rare and Helmar nearly impossible with any player front

S74-1 silks clearly have the 3 color inks. Blue, Brown and as Bob C pointed out a red/ rust color that Burdick refers to as red in the American Card Catalogue. As far as S74-2 I think there was blue ink and a rust/red ink or brownish red. I am not convinced that there is a separate brown and red ink on the colored silks. It is hard to know with all the silk color variations that can skew the ink colors. I have close to 300 colored silks and did a detailed separation of the various master colors of the S74-2 silk on the S74silk website. However light exposure or variation of color make for variations beyond the different ones I show on the site. Best of luck in your hunt for the elusive blue ink Chase.

Silverskulls · #9 04-16-2023, 12:29 PM

Really interesting and helpful! Thanks, Rick! The content on the website is top notch too. Really thorough and easy to understand.

Did your master list have a dark red silk Chase with blue ink? I haven�t come across another yet.

Justin

realbigfatdog · #10 04-17-2023, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricktmd

Mike,

A few of the larger collectors and myself put together a master check list a few years back using our own collections and auction lot history. No S74-1 Chase silks are listed with Red Sun or Helmar backs. Also, no blue ink printed Chase S74-1 silks are notated on my list with any back. I still find unknown variations as I recently picked up a White with blue ink OM back and an Overall blue ink TR (no frame) back. Neither were on the master list. They are unique or previously undiscovered finds. I think it is possible you will find a blue ink S74-1 Chase silk. As far as finding one with a Red Sun or Helmar back, that is possible, but any Red Sun is very rare and Helmar nearly impossible with any player front

S74-1 silks clearly have the 3 color inks. Blue, Brown and as Bob C pointed out a red/ rust color that Burdick refers to as red in the American Card Catalogue. As far as S74-2 I think there was blue ink and a rust/red ink or brownish red. I am not convinced that there is a separate brown and red ink on the colored silks. It is hard to know with all the silk color variations that can skew the ink colors. I have close to 300 colored silks and did a detailed separation of the various master colors of the S74-2 silk on the S74silk website. However light exposure or variation of color make for variations beyond the different ones I show on the site. Best of luck in your hunt for the elusive blue ink Chase.

Interestingly enough, I was able to track down a blue ink S74-1 Chase. I found it on ebay. I had it graded shortly after it arrived to me.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Info needed Dan Hodge	sam majors	Boxing / Wrestling Cards & Memorabilia Forum	2	06-27-2017 07:21 PM
PSA info needed?	sam majors	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	4	06-26-2017 07:13 PM
Info needed	Ron	Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used	0	08-27-2012 10:09 AM
seeking info on S81 silks	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	1	12-12-2004 05:24 PM
Auction Info. needed	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	0	11-29-2001 08:19 AM