Let's see how far THIS one has fallen! 1958 Topps Jim Brown! Ends tonight!

Touch'EmAll · #1 04-23-2023, 11:21 AM

Now a couple years removed from the covid peak in prices, the upcoming major vintage/pre-war auctions will give good indication of the state of our market - everything from the $5.k Mathewson type cards all the way to the '58 high grade Jim Brown to the PSA 9 Koufax rookie.

I am guessing we are on new "normal" ground without any driving forces outside of basic hobby supply/demand.

While many absolutely fantastic cards in REA, I notice a lack of mid to higher grade T206 HOF'ers. Kinda tells me people have tucked these away. There was a T206 W. Johnson hands chest that someone hit the BIN 7,800. on eBay recently - a new all time high for that card. And it was very avg/low for the grade.

oldjudge · #2 04-23-2023, 11:39 AM

With any commodity card I wonder why it is in an SGC holder. If it could get a comparable grade from PSA why wouldn't the owner switch it? This is always a red flag to me.
As for the Gehrig rookie, buying this card from a scan is crazy. I don't think you can tell from a scan if it is a 1925 or a 1926 and as we've all seen saying something on a cert doesn't always make it so.

MACollector · #3 04-23-2023, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

With any commodity card I wonder why it is in an SGC holder. If it could get a comparable grade from PSA why wouldn't the owner switch it? This is always a red flag to me.
As for the Gehrig rookie, buying this card from a scan is crazy. I don't think you can tell from a scan if it is a 1925 or a 1926 and as we've all seen saying something on a cert doesn't always make it so.

Maybe I am new here but isn't the 1926 Gehrig Exhibit a different picture? I just went searching as it sounded like an interesting question you raised. Only found a portrait or batting stance image for the 26-29 Exhibits.

chalupacollects · #4 04-23-2023, 12:54 PM

Is it me but is that really an 8.5 with all those surface flaws?

MikeGarcia · #5 04-23-2023, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Is it me but is that really an 8.5 with all those surface flaws?

....nice try , but I and thirteen other guys on here are bidding on it anyway. But planting seeds of doubt has worked , at least for me , in other situations.. now if you'll excuse me I'm going back to my Google search results for " Highest-paying blood banks within 100 miles of Pottstown , Pennsylvania."

..

chalupacollects · #6 04-23-2023, 03:14 PM

[QUOTE=MikeGarcia;2334097]....nice try , but I and thirteen other guys on here are bidding on it anyway. But planting seeds of doubt has worked , at least for me , in other situations.. now if you'll excuse me I'm going back to my Google search results for " Highest-paying blood banks within 100 miles of Pottstown , Pennsylvania."

LOl, Nope I have no skin in this game! Just looked at the card close and there are lines on front left, rub off on back and much surface spots. Seriously an 8.5?

G1911 · #7 04-23-2023, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Is it me but is that really an 8.5 with all those surface flaws?

That was my thought, but 58 footballs are littered with those defects, especially the black oval cards. I�m not sure I�ve ever seen a truly clean 1958 black oval in hand. If it was a different card I doubt it would be given an honest 8.5 honest.

Casey2296 · #8 04-23-2023, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911

That was my thought, but 58 footballs are littered with those defects, especially the black oval cards. I�m not sure I�ve ever seen a truly clean 1958 black oval in hand. If it was a different card I doubt it would be given an honest 8.5 honest.

Slippery slope, if TPG's started grading specific to sets you would see a lot more Pre-war 3's and 4's qualify for 5's and 6's. they treat marquee cards differently depending on the submitter. A conundrum for sure.

G1911 · #9 04-23-2023, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Slippery slope, if TPG's started grading specific to sets you would see a lot more Pre-war 3's and 4's qualify for 5's and 6's. they treat marquee cards differently depending on the submitter. A conundrum for sure.

I am not in support of a standard that shifts by set; an EX card is an EX card. Some sets and cards just won�t have true high grade.

However, it seems apparent to me that, while never stated by them, all of the graders are doing this in actual practice. Most 1958 Brown�s in high grade slabs would suffer a 1-3 point knock if they were 1971 Topps baseball where the black, while prone to edge wear, is not so prone to surface wear, scuffing and print issues. I don�t think this particular Brown is an outlier.

pherbener · #10 04-23-2023, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACollector

Maybe I am new here but isn't the 1926 Gehrig Exhibit a different picture? I just went searching as it sounded like an interesting question you raised. Only found a portrait or batting stance image for the 26-29 Exhibits.

Here's a thread that discusses the difference. I remembered reading about that years ago. (When I should have bought one!) It really gets going in Orlando's post #42 https://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=227798

MACollector · #11 04-23-2023, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pherbener

Here's a thread that discusses the difference. I remembered reading about that years ago. (When I should have bought one!) It really gets going in Orlando's post #42 https://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=227798

Thanks. Interesting read. Sounds like this one might be the true 25 since it looks quite black and white without a blue tint that signifies the 26.

Exhibitman · #12 04-23-2023, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

With any commodity card I wonder why it is in an SGC holder. If it could get a comparable grade from PSA why wouldn't the owner switch it? This is always a red flag to me.

This. People who care about graded postwar cards of this level skew towards PSA.

My $0.02 on the Brown RC is that the rough edges left and right stand out enough to make me question whether it would cross over to a comparable PSA grade or maybe get knocked down 1/2 or even 1 grade.

bobbyw8469 · #13 04-24-2023, 05:52 AM

The Brown sold for $47k . TERRIBLE flip for the one who bought it during Covid. Also, the Koufax PSA 9 sold for $384k.

Arazi4442 · #14 04-24-2023, 09:04 AM

From the �assets� I keep an eye on, this Jim Brown card seems pretty indicative of the market�

Pre-Covid price = X
Peak of Covid spike = 5-10X
Current = 2-3X

parkplace33 · #15 04-24-2023, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

The Brown sold for $47k . TERRIBLE flip for the one who bought it during Covid. Also, the Koufax PSA 9 sold for $384k.

I have so many questions about these "purchases" over the last 3 years.

Peter_Spaeth · #16 04-24-2023, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I have so many questions about these "purchases" over the last 3 years.

That's the thing. Prices get reported, but if the sale doesn't go through or there are other things making it unreliable, those don't get reported.

darwinbulldog · #17 04-24-2023, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That's the thing. Prices get reported, but if the sale doesn't go through or there are other things making it unreliable, those don't get reported.

But that isn't specific to 2020-2022 or any other period; it's just always been noise in the data.

BobbyStrawberry · #18 04-23-2023, 11:42 AM

They way I'm seeing cards bounce around from one auction to another, I'm impressed someone held this one for two years.

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