Roberto Clemente Signature "Bob"

G1911 · #1 05-08-2023, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

OK, maybe, but maybe not. Let's say he objected early on and "Topps were being assholes" for years after the fact. If it truly mattered so much to him, why didn't he just pull a Maury Wills and tell Topps to take a hike when it came to using his image, etc.? Surely, Roberto didn't need their insulting chicken scratch or a new dishwasher or whatever. He could buy whatever he wanted without Topps' paltry payout.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyElm

There's no argument either way here with me, just pointing out some facts. We'd have to ask each player if labeling him 'Bob' on his card was what he wanted. Is there any first-hand info from Mr. Clemente himself?

We are supposed to make the assumptions required to arrive at the conclusion that was determined desirable before the inquiry, and dismiss the primary evidence and testimony of his friends that there was not a real issue here.

cgjackson222 · #2 05-08-2023, 06:00 PM

Random tidbit: Roberto Clemente Walker chose the number 21 because his 3 names added up to 21 letters:

""He was hitting nothing but line drives and making lots of outs," recalls infielder Geene Freese, whose Forbes Field locker was next to Clemente's. "Meanwhile, I'm hitting blooper all over the place and batting .340. I told him, "You have a terrible number there. He said "What do you mean?" I said, "13 that's unlucky".

Clemente resolved to find a new number. He wrote out his full name-R-o-b-e-r-t-o-C-l-e-m-e-n-t-e-W-a-l-k-e-r (in Hispanic cultures, the mother's maiden name follows the father's surname)--added up the letters and decided 21 was a good fit.

The number was available because first baseman Tony Bartirome, who opened the season wearing 21 had been sent down."

Source: Indiana Gazette article by Bob Fulton, June 17, 2005

Casey2296 · #3 05-08-2023, 10:16 PM

Bob/Roberto debate notwithstanding, I'm no autograph expert but a cursory search of his known signatures makes the 55 look suspect as hell.

Aquarian Sports Cards · #4 05-08-2023, 10:59 PM

We had a "Bob" Clemente autographed piece from 1957 a few auctions ago. It seems it was not long thereafter that he changed to Roberto. I've never seen a later piece autographed as Bob.

https://thecollectorconnection.com/b...e?itemid=41345

71buc · #5 05-09-2023, 12:56 AM

Interesting conversation, I�ll voice no opinion one way or another. Nor will
I judge anyone for their comments or opinions. Nonetheless, Clemente was not from a foreign country. Like all Puerto Ricans he was born an American citizen. As such I would disagree that calling him Bob was an effort to Americanize him.

cgjackson222 · #6 05-09-2023, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71buc

Interesting conversation, I’ll voice no opinion one way or another. Nor will
I judge anyone for their comments or opinions. Nonetheless, Clemente was not from a foreign country. Like all Puerto Ricans he was born an American citizen. As such I would disagree that calling him Bob was an effort to Americanize him.

Yes, Puerto Ricans are technically Americans. But to White America, they were foreign sounding (and looking), and were treated differently. I should have more accurately said that calling Roberto Bob may have been a way to "Anglicize" his name.

Check out the attached article from June 7, 1955 in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette where Roberto firmly states what he wants to be called and where the newspaper goes to great lengths to emphasize the different way he pronounced certain words:

""My name eet is Roberto Enricque Clemente Walker….Just Roberto Clemente, thas all….This Enricque is middle name. Walker eet is my mother's name. In Puerto Rico, people she use father and mother's name. I use Roberto Clemente in thees country.""

Jim65 · #7 05-09-2023, 04:35 AM

I'm wondering, did Topps try to Anglicize any other players names.

I see Roberto Pena and Roberto Rodriguez were named Roberto on their 1960's Topps cards, so obviously there was no giant conspiracy to eliminate the Robertos of the world.

rats60 · #8 05-09-2023, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71buc

Interesting conversation, I�ll voice no opinion one way or another. Nor will
I judge anyone for their comments or opinions. Nonetheless, Clemente was not from a foreign country. Like all Puerto Ricans he was born an American citizen. As such I would disagree that calling him Bob was an effort to Americanize him.

Americanize is the wrong word, they tried to Anglicize him. Call him an English language version of his name instead of his actual Spanish name.

When Roberto came to the mainland, he was shocked at the racism he faced, both as being black and Latino. He was American and wasn't subject to racism in Puerto Rico. So when white Americans would call him an Anglicized version of his name, he was not receptive of it. As has been pointed out, when it was friends, he knew it was not meant badly, but from strangers he was always skeptical due to the way strangers treated him.

rats60 · #9 05-09-2023, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

We had a "Bob" Clemente autographed piece from 1957 a few auctions ago. It seems it was not long thereafter that he changed to Roberto. I've never seen a later piece autographed as Bob.

https://thecollectorconnection.com/b...e?itemid=41345

Mine was on a 1967 Topps card, so it was at least late 60s.

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