Graded vs. Raw Rant.......

homerunhitter · #1 05-10-2023, 12:29 PM

Good to see that both graded and raw are in demand!

homerunhitter · #2 05-14-2023, 12:35 AM

But now hearing that fake graded cards are flooding the hobby now.

raulus · #3 05-15-2023, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

But now hearing that fake graded cards are flooding the hobby now.

Fake or altered?

And just how flooding is flooding?

Certainly there are reports about graded altered cards (with number grades) being ubiquitous. I think there's room to debate precisely how ubiquitous they are. And we each have our theories, which tend to run the gamut.

Graded fakes seem less likely to be flooding in. My sense is it's more of a trickle, at least relative to the overall volume of graded cards.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 05-15-2023, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

But now hearing that fake graded cards are flooding the hobby now.

Could you be more vague?

Eric72 · #5 05-15-2023, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

But now hearing that fake graded cards are flooding the hobby now.

Fake cards in genuine holders (the TPG graded a fake)

...or...

Cards in fake holders (someone manufactured a counterfeit slab)?

EDITED to add: I'm asking the group, not just the anonymous user who apparently spotted some flooding.

raulus · #6 05-16-2023, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric72

Fake cards in genuine holders (the TPG graded a fake)

...or...

Cards in fake holders (someone manufactured a counterfeit slab)?

EDITED to add: I'm asking the group, not just the anonymous user who apparently spotted some flooding.

I think we've seen some cards in counterfeit slabs. Probably not enough to constitute flooding. But it's certainly not zero.

I thought I heard somewhere that some goons were running around with their own supply of slabs and a machine for making it happen.

From what I've seen, the cards they snuck into those slabs, when closely inspected, suggested that there was clearly a problem. Cards that should grade at maybe a 5, but were in a 9 slab, etc. Before one of the TPG haters suggests that even the genuine ones experience this overgrading phenomenon, my experience is that such an extreme outcome is a real outlier.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 05-16-2023, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raulus

I think we've seen some cards in counterfeit slabs. Probably not enough to constitute flooding. But it's certainly not zero.

I thought I heard somewhere that some goons were running around with their own supply of slabs and a machine for making it happen.

From what I've seen, the cards they snuck into those slabs, when closely inspected, suggested that there was clearly a problem. Cards that should grade at maybe a 5, but were in a 9 slab, etc. Before one of the TPG haters suggests that even the genuine ones experience this overgrading phenomenon, my experience is that such an extreme outcome is a real outlier.

Yes there are several posts on this forum about "Copperfield" and his scam out of Mexico, including one about a recent arrest of a guy in Denver. I helped out a guy who bought what was almost certainly one of these cards out of a Goodwin auction. As I discovered, it had the same cert as a completely different and clearly legit card with the same grade, and obviously Copperfield had replicated the cert on an inferior card. To our shock, PSA blessed the card and put it in a new cert. A true WTF moment.

raulus · #8 05-16-2023, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I helped out a guy who bought what was almost certainly one of these cards out of a Goodwin auction. As I discovered, it had the same cert as a completely different and clearly legit card with the same grade, and obviously Copperfield had replicated the cert on an inferior card. To our shock, PSA blessed the card and put it in a new cert. A true WTF moment.

The last part seems pretty nuts. Maybe they assumed some sort of database entry problem, and just went on their merry way with processing it into a new cert? Even if that were the case, I would expect they would look at those a bit more closely for these types of shenanigans.

homerunhitter · #9 06-03-2023, 04:43 PM

weekend bump!

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